G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:56 pm

I'd be very interested in G31, X23 and SHPX decals!
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby milwrd1 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Rob M wrote:milwrd1; sorry I can't help there. I would imagine microscale has some type of PRR N scale decals that might work.

Marquette; yes, I will be running some more of these towards the end of the month.


To Rob M.
I just checked the Microscale decal site, I could not locate any PRR gondola decals in N or HO scale. :thumbdown: Plenty of N scale Boxcar, Flat Car, engine and passenger car decals. Considering the PRR freight car fleet was at one time one of the largest in North America, I was surprised that the listings for the PRR were limited. :o
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby scaro » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:51 pm

j p wrote:If you (and/or others) are interested in the decals, I can easily just copy and paste and fill the sheet.
It was not intended for sale because of the world's highest postage of Post Denmark which efficiently kills any attempts for iternational sales from here.
But if we can agree which decals would be interesting for you, I can fill the sheet by addinng extra copies for you and send the artwork for printing on ALPS. Then the decals could be either sent the expensive way from here ($6 postage) as soon as they get printed or much cheaper way by USPS if you can wait until April.


i would take a couple of sets ... i'm in the UK so i imagine postage of decals is not going to be that much and i have two of these gons ... and you can't model eastern without something PRR, although like the UP and ATSF, it's not a RR i feel much love for.

cheers, ben
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:25 pm

scaro wrote:and you can't model eastern without something PRR


1960s or before you can't model /anything/ in the US without something PRR... they had more /boxcars/ than most other roads had freight cars all together (including big roads like UP, SP, Milwaukee...). Just a sample to illustrate... 1/1952:

PRR had 62,315 boxcars (XM) out of 191,639 total revenue cars...
NYC had 58,748 XM out of 137,491 cars...
Santa Fe had 34,509 XM out of 83,724 cars...
Milwaukee had 28,075 XM out of 57.749 cars...
SP had 27,003 XM out of 57,671 cars...
B&O had 25,634 XM out of 98,220 cars...
UP had 24,111 XM out of 49.646 cars...
Southern had 22,807 XM out of 52,144 cars...
CNW had 21,368 XM out of 44,557 cars
Rock Island had 18.857 XM out of 31,073 cars
C&O had 17,151 XM out of 80,180 cars...

scaro wrote:although like the UP and ATSF, it's not a RR i feel much love for.


I don't much like either the UP or the ATSF (can't really say why, just something about them rubs me wrong), but I do find the Pennsy interesting - they did things their own way and had a /lot/ of very nifty equipment as a result.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby scaro » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:11 am

True enough. Can you nominate an interesting PRR box as a project? Preferably steel or a steel rebuild since I've sadly concluded composite cars were rare as hen's teeth by the late 50s in the northeast. Even on the marginal CNJ they were to all intents and purposes extinct by 1959, let alone the NYC or B&O. The Squeak had 11 36' Fowlers, used in REA traffic attached to passenger trains of all things. But that was because they had sold their only modern cars to the Monon in the downturn of 1958.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby j p » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:33 am

scaro wrote:True enough. Can you nominate an interesting PRR box as a project? Preferably steel or a steel rebuild since I've sadly concluded composite cars were rare as hen's teeth by the late 50s in the northeast. Even on the marginal CNJ they were to all intents and purposes extinct by 1959, let alone the NYC or B&O. The Squeak had 11 36' Fowlers, used in REA traffic attached to passenger trains of all things. But that was because they had sold their only modern cars to the Monon in the downturn of 1958.


I have X31A "in progress", but that will take a long time.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:17 pm

scaro wrote:True enough. Can you nominate an interesting PRR box as a project? Preferably steel or a steel rebuild since I've sadly concluded composite cars were rare as hen's teeth by the late 50s in the northeast. Even on the marginal CNJ they were to all intents and purposes extinct by 1959, let alone the NYC or B&O. The Squeak had 11 36' Fowlers, used in REA traffic attached to passenger trains of all things. But that was because they had sold their only modern cars to the Monon in the downturn of 1958.


For interesting PRR boxcars... well, there were a lot. There was the one-off X30, which had a 70' inside length and was used in revenue service hauling new fire trucks; the end doors might be a challenge to model, though (IIRC it lasted into the PC era)... the X36 was another one-off but extremely interesting, very modern-looking with its vertical steel outside bracing (built in 1936, but IIRC in revenue service until at least 1959)... the various X29 and X26 rebuilds are interesting... X31 and X32 variants are also nifty cars.

Composite cars lasted much longer on the western roads, you're right... the Milwaukee had quite a few still going in the 60s, so they'd definitely have turned up back east, too. The Northern Pacific had a fair number left too, as well as some double-sheathed cars...

A long time ago I started working on a list of boxcars in service in 1959, marking them by type, alas it's far from finished. However, here are the composite cars from the portion I did get done:

MILW 705000-708499 (2414 cars)
MILW 711000-713999 (2247)
MP 93000-95249 (2133; USRA s/s (or clone))
MP 46000-48749 (1817)
SL-SF 147000-149499 (1784)
SL-SF 161500-163999 (1551)
CB&Q 15000-16999 (1322; USRA s/s (or clone))
MILW 708500-710499 (1147)
CTH&SE 715600-716499 (815; MILW subsidiary)

And I know for certain there was a lot more. And these all being interchanged... they're all pretty likely to have turned up anywhere in the US.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby railtwister » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:31 pm

scaro wrote:True enough. Can you nominate an interesting PRR box as a project? Preferably steel or a steel rebuild since I've sadly concluded composite cars were rare as hen's teeth by the late 50s in the northeast. Even on the marginal CNJ they were to all intents and purposes extinct by 1959, let alone the NYC or B&O. The Squeak had 11 36' Fowlers, used in REA traffic attached to passenger trains of all things. But that was because they had sold their only modern cars to the Monon in the downturn of 1958.


Hi Ben,

So many boxcars look so much alike, with only dimensional differences or slightly different details like number of corrugations in the ends, or rib patterns in the roof. For that reason, I would like to see the Pennsy X29 type, with it's lower profile and flat, riveted ends. Other roads like B&O and SAL had similar looking cars though they may not have been exactly the same as the X29's.

Bill in FtL
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:53 pm

The B&O's cars actually *were* the same design as the X29. The SAL's cars (class B-6) were the 1932 ARA standard. Very similar, but still noticeably different. Also it's worth noting that not all X29s had flat ends (some had Dreadnaughts, for example). But, it is something I've been going on about for as long as I can remember, the X29 is one of the most important boxcars to have in model form, because they were around from the 20s to the mid or late 60s in revenue service, and there were just /so/ many of them, anyone modelling that time period needs a few. The X29 and 1932 ARA cars are similar enough that one could serve as a reasonable stand-in for the other, and to actually convert a model of one into the other wouldn't entail too much work - so win/win. Either way, it's an /extremely/ distinctive car that needs to be made available!

For my part though, I will admit I'm a boxcar nut, and the different styles of roof or end or door even on the same general design make for the distinctive character of each car... so it's very hard for me to be bored by boxcars or to find two that I'd say are identical! :)

Compare the Seaboard's 1932 ARA car...

SAL 17278.jpg


... with a Pennsy X29:

PRR 51121.jpg


On these particular cars (and on many others - Nickel Plate and B&O X29-types, for example) the roof, doors and ends are the same; these of course are things that varied between the various batches of X29s and 1932 ARA cars built, as these were things specified by each railroad as to what the wanted. But these two photos also illustrate clearly the one glaringly obvious difference between the two very similar cars - the X29's straight side sill, compared to the distinctive "tabbed" sill of the 1932 car (which is a feature it shares with the later 1937 and 1944 standards, too).
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby scaro » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:00 am

i've got a body for a SAL 1932 ARA car. i based it on the article in ACL-SAL-SCL Modeler, but the side's kind of wonky. worth restoring though, especially given the time it took me to do the lap-seam roof.

i seem to recall there are a number of very similar cars to X29s and then some aren't just close, they are bang on. did NKP inherit theirs from the W&LE or something?

having made a lot of mistakes in the making of the SAL car, it may well be much easier to avoid some of those in doing an X29. the straight sill looks a bit easier. a car that could do a B&O, NKP and PRR in the one hit doesn't sound bad.

if i can find a decent plan for an X29 that indicates the right spaces for the rivets, that might be the start. you just reduce it and punch away then laminate that 1:120 reduced paper side to styrene. i imagine for a master, you would want to coat the paper in something that seals it so it is impervious to molding rubber. but riveting and a few cuts on a plan reduced to scale would knock off the sides and ends. i think doors varied a bit, didn't they?

however, i think X29s have caused a few problems for manufacturers ? is there something about them that is hard to get right? they look simple, but them's famous last words.

or i could try an NYC USRA steel boxcar, but traversing that territory, it is a dangerous one. there be monsters ... :shock:
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