G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby scaro » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:35 am

Marquette wrote:Wabash 12600-12649
WAB 12649-2.jpg

(snip)

Western Pacific 6801-6825
WP 6815.jpg



just a note that there seem to be some height and end variations among these gons. compare the height of the T&P and ACL ones.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Arseny » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:33 am

Marquette wrote:and of course the arch bar works...


Well, at last I made up my mind to build it. :smile:

I wanted to use Peresvet's archbar trucks, and found some info about it:

"The Arch Bar Truck is typical of these trucks from around the turn of the century. Despite the age of these trucks, they saw more than seventy years of service in some applications. The arch bar was allowed in interchange service until about 1941. On railroads that were not common carriers such as logging or other industrial lines, this restriction of the trucks did not apply since the trucks did not operate on rails other than the owner's. The Northern Pacific, for example, used truss rod frame maintenance of way cars fitted with arch bar trucks well into the early 1970's. Many logging railroads also used them at least until then."

And then some info about the prototype:

"The ACF 70-ton welded Drop-end Gondola actually has its origins from the Pennsylvania Railroad’s Altoona PA shops. First built in 1948 as class G31, these were the first all-welded gondolas produced by PRR. In 1951, PRR received additional gondolas mimicking the G31 design from outside vendors American Car and Foundry, Pullman Standard, and Greenville."

If so, the archbar truck will not be suitable for this G31 gondola, am I right?
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby scaro » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:27 am

i think a a cast freight truck is more likely on this wagon.

though that is not to say one never ran with archbars ... odd things happen.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:14 am

Yeah, I wouldn't put arch bars under one of these unless I had a photo documenting it... and if there was such a photo, I'd bet it was a car that was being/needed repairs...
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby MacG » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:13 pm

I would use the Peresvet trucks from the tank cars.
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby j p » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:26 pm

I haven't assembled the kits yet, but my plan is to use Gold Coast ASF trucks on some and roller bearing trucks on the rest.
The tool for making various grabirons is perfect! Thanks Rob!
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Richard-B » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:26 pm

Marquette wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't put arch bars under one of these unless I had a photo documenting it... and if there was such a photo, I'd bet it was a car that was being/needed repairs...


They say: Never say Never...
Except in this case!

Where would the 70ton rated archbar truck have from????

I will pay big $£¥€ for the prototype photo with archbar trucks!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby j p » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 am

Richard-B wrote:
Marquette wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't put arch bars under one of these unless I had a photo documenting it... and if there was such a photo, I'd bet it was a car that was being/needed repairs...


They say: Never say Never...
Except in this case!

Where would the 70ton rated archbar truck have from????

I will pay big $£¥€ for the prototype photo with archbar trucks!!!!!!!!!!


From M/W equipment or heavy duty flatcars.
Heavy duty archbar was rated 100 tons. I'd like to see that prototype photo too :)
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=226&category=Freight+Car+Parts
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Richard-B » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:09 am

j p wrote:From M/W equipment or heavy duty flatcars.
Heavy duty archbar was rated 100 tons. I'd like to see that prototype photo too :)
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=226&category=Freight+Car+Parts


I don't disagree they existed... but the heavy-duty archbars were rare enough never to have been applied to general-use interchange freight cars.

In any case... the archbar truck was BANNED by the AAR (Association of American Railroads) from actual RR-to-RR interchange beginning in 1936... (extended to 1942), long after railroads themselves had stopped ordering them on new cars, which was in the 1920s.

The earliest prototype for Rob M's gondola is the riveted Pennsylvania RR (PRR) G28 class... built in 1941, so there is no chance (~= NEVER!) that these cars had archbar trucks at any time in their interchange career. Note that Rob's model is of the welded version, PRR class G31, first built in 1948, and copied by many other railroads.

All of this is detailed in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia (RPCyc) 19 http://www.rpcycpub.com/v19.html
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Re: G31 gon and clones (a thread for Rob M's gon project)

Postby Marquette » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:27 am

Richard-B wrote:In any case... the archbar truck was BANNED by the AAR (Association of American Railroads) from actual RR-to-RR interchange beginning in 1936... (extended to 1942), long after railroads themselves had stopped ordering them on new cars, which was in the 1920s.


But like you said, never say never: the Potlatch Lumber Co. of Idaho had many freight cars with arch bar trucks that were at home on the Washington Idaho & Montana RR but were interchanged onto the Northern Pacific and I think also the Milwaukee and UP...

There was also a shortline in Louisiana whose name I can't remember now who had some boxcars with arch bar trucks that were also used in interchange service... by agreement with the connecting railway.

But that said, these were all old cars, built with the arch bar trucks... a newer car to be re-equipped with arch bars is infinitely unlikely.
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