Fowler type boxcars

Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:57 pm

The following car series can be modelled with the Gold Coast kit, with a slight modification to the ends; if you look at the posted photos, notice the extra angled braces on the ends - this is the major visual difference between the type represented by the GC car and these car series. There may be other smaller detail differences, too, but to get the correct visual appearance, the end is the minimum modification needed.

Central Vermont CV 40000-40199
These cars were built with vertical-staff handbrakes:
CV 40019.jpg


Later, they were rebuilt with Ajax power-assisted handbrakes (I don't know the rebuild date, but certainly by 1950 most if not all cars had been so rebuilt):
CV 40050.jpg


Green Bay & Western GBW 6000-6298 (even numbers only)
GBW 6056.jpg


Milwaukee Road MILW 705000-710499
MILW 708858.jpg


Milwaukee Road MILW 711000-713989
MILW 711018 - 2.jpg


Something I should mention: most of these types entered service by the late 1920s, and most lasted into the late 1960s in revenue service. For some of these types I /do/ know more specific info, but as a general guide, you can use these cars anywhere from 1925-1965. :)

@Arseny: ah, yes, I know this car! But, I believe the design of the American-built car is something special for Russia, I don't know of any car that looks like this that ran in North America.
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby scaro » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:43 pm

interesting that it was mainly a car owned by smaller roads. i've often been surprised how much fantasy comes into US model railroad paint schemes ... particularly in N but it may be the case in other scales. coming from an australian perspective, each state railway had its own distinct designs, often as not on different gauge tracks, so the temptation to do wagons in each others' schemes is not as strong. too many nitpickers who'd raise a grievance ... and it would just look 'wrong'. perhaps that is not the case with american cars.

the range available in TT seems oriented toward eastern roads. this PVM outside braced boxcar seems far more of a common design than the fowler one: http://www.ttscale.com/members/pvm/obc-boxcar.jpg
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:06 pm

The Milwaukee was NOT a "smaller road"!! IIRC they had the fifth or sixth largest boxcar fleet! Neither was the Chicago & Northwestern small by any means! (CMO was a subsidiary of the CNW)

Also, the majority of these 40' Fowler-types were owned by western roads - the Milwaukee, the Rio Grande, Chicago & Northwestern... and we haven't yet touched the steel-ended clones!

The PVM car you linked to was indeed around in greater numbers - it's the USRA standard single-sheathed boxcar. There were more of those around, including clones and a variety of ends (the 5/5 Dreadnaught end on the PVM kit is one of the rarest, though!). The general design is, of course, very common all over the US (as well as Canada, CN and CP both built cars to this design), as during the USRA administration, only cars of the standard designs were built and assigned by the USRA to the various roads. There are a great number of issues I have with this kit, though... but a good model of that car is something else that would be high on a list of needed cars - they ran in revenue service into the late 60s and early 70s too, later in MoW service.

But, I'll make a separate thread for that, let's keep this one for the 40' Fowlers! :)
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:29 pm

7-8 Murphy (protruding) ends

This was the most common steel end on the 40' Fowler clones.

Kansas City Southern KCS 16000-16500
KCS 16027.jpg


Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific RI 157500-158699
RI 158209.jpg


St Louis - San Francisco "Frisco" SLSF 147000-149499
SLSF 147556.jpg


St Louis, Brownsville & Mexico (Missouri Pacific) StLB&M 2901-3400
STLB&M 3383.jpg
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:33 pm

7-8 Murphy (inverse) ends
This was a variant of the much more common "protruding" Murphy end - on these, instead of sticking out from the end, the ribs on the end were inverted - they protruded into the car instead of outwards.

Georgia & Florida G&F 7246-7500
G&F 7482.jpg


Missouri Pacific MP 46000-48749
MP 47520.jpg
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:41 pm

3-4 Dreadnaught (protruding) ends
Though generally across Dreadnaught variants the protruding ribs were more common than the inverse ribs, as far as those Dreadnaught ends with a 3-over-4 rib count (hence: 3-4) are concerned, I know of only one series of 40' Fowler clones that used this end:

Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific RI 133300-133999
RI 133999.jpg


3-4 Dreadnaught (inverse) ends

Columbus & Greenville C&G 3000-3299
C&G 3048.jpg


Georgia & Florida G&F 8001-8060
G&F 8060.jpg


International - Great Northern (Missouri Pacific) I-GN 9401-9900
This was a subsidiary of the Missouri Pacific operating in Texas; it had nothing to do with the "big" Great Northern!
IGN 9891.jpg


Lousiana & Arkansas (Kansas City Southern) L&A 12000-12299
L&A 12249.jpg
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:46 pm

3-4 Dreadnaught (inverse) ends, cont.

Sand Springs Ry SSRY 120-123
SSRY 121.jpg


Wichita Falls & Southern WF&S 6051-6100
WF&S 6072.jpg


4-4 Dreadnaught (protruding) ends

St Louis - San Francisco "Frisco" SLSF 160000-161499
SLSF 160584.jpg


St Louis - San Francisco "Frisco" SLSF 161500-163999
SLSF 161758.jpg
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby Marquette » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:55 pm

4-post composite ends
These could probably be modified from the stock end that comes with the Gold Coast kit.

Chicago & North Western 121000-124998 (even numbers only)
Photo is of Westerfield kit.
CNW 124556.jpg
CNW 124556.jpg (16.05 KiB) Viewed 915 times


Soo Line SOO 32800-36558
To build one of these cars requires a more significant kitbash than just the ends (also keep in mind that some were later rebuilt to various different steel ends!). The most important difference, besides the ends, is the "sawtooth" side sill - look at how the bracing protrudes below the bottom of the sheathing on the side. I have a plan to model one of these using the Gold Coast kit; when I get around to it, I will post a build thread. But for the moment, I'll just tell the approach I will use: get the kit (not the RTR model), and on the sides, remove the bottom board enough to represent the protruding bracing.
SOO 33462.jpg


6-panel Hutchins (inverse) ends
This is a very uncommon end, I've only seen it used on cars belonging to the D&H!

Delaware & Hudson D&H 17501-17600
D&H 17523.jpg


And there you have it... this is what I've got info at the moment on these cars; I *think* there were some other roads that used cars of this design, but I'll have to dig more deeply for that. Also note I didn't bother to include the Rio Grande cars, since Gold Coast has done a good job of covering those! :)
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby scaro » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:32 pm

i spoke too soon on the 'small roads' thing evidently. i'd like to know more about the USRA one when you have the time. again, not something you see a lot about on the web ... for most modellers a boxcar is a boxcar is a boxcar.
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Re: Fowler type boxcars

Postby scaro » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:09 am

Marquette wrote:7-8 Murphy (inverse) ends
This was a variant of the much more common "protruding" Murphy end - on these, instead of sticking out from the end, the ribs on the end were inverted - they protruded into the car instead of outwards.

Georgia & Florida G&F 7246-7500
G&F 7482.jpg


Missouri Pacific MP 46000-48749
MP 47520.jpg



someone has pointed out to me that Ga & Fla 7246-7500 and 8001-8060 series were not really fowlers or 'fowler clones', but a different design, an AC&F alternative to the 1920s ARA single sheathed design.

there is some support for this view, in this blurb from sunshine models, who make them in HO.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39c.pdf

Ga & Fla sold 100 such cars to the C&EI in 1938, so it wasn't just small roads that had them.

i am wondering if some of the cars in this thread may be the AC&F design too? without numbers it is not possible to say. apparently the AC&F cars were sturdy and long lived cars and made it into the late 60s on some roads.

that said, i'm not sure i can see much, if any, difference between these and a fowler clone. i will ask what the differences were.

ben
Last edited by scaro on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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