Fast Tracks TT

Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby j p » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:57 am

OK, now I understand what you mean. Even the real train's wheel bumps into the hole when driving over the frog - with the exception of high speed trains as TGV and Shinkansen, which have switching frogs.
That is why there is a check rail mounted on the other side.
I have a mix of all kinds of trains and I never had a problem with this. The only problem I noticed was when running old Euro models over HP turnouts because the groove in the HP frog is only 0.70 mm deep. So any wheel with flanges larger than that would get lifted up and run on the flange through the frog - which is bad.
TT-filigran turnouts can handle flanges up to 1 mm.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby Bill Dixon » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:57 am

Been working hard to get a crossover ready for Western Rails.

Since I chose a code 55 jig my first problem is to join the two sizes of rail together.
I cut up two straight sections to make four seven-tie long adapter pieces. Then I filed the end of the rail down so that I could solder the code 55 rail to it.
20140302SteppedRail.jpg

These were then glued to a module. The next problem was to build up the base between the ends to allow for the height difference between the new turnouts and Tillig track.
20140302preparingmodule.jpg

Two layers of Styrene and one of cork roadbed were just right.
Then it was time to glue the first turnout down.
20140305firstturnoutglues.jpg

Here it is in all its glory. You can see all the issues I am having making track, ties everywhere.
The gray ties are PC ties painted flat gray so they will take the acrylic paint I am trying to use to colour the ties.
You can see a painted turnout assembly above the road bed. Looks OK but the acrylic paint is so thick you can glue the points in place. You can guess how I found that out.<G>
I am having more luck with PC ties than I am with the wood ones. Can't get the wood ones glued reliably. Using Pliobond and super glue.
Making lots of mistakes and learning lots but that is to be expected as I am far from an expert in what I am doing.
Another 20 or so turnouts and I should be better.
It would be nice to have access to a laser cutter to cut the various ties bits for a turnout. Would speed the process up a bit. Currently I assemble each section of ties separately and then glue them to the rail.

I am also starting to wonder if my tie spacing is a bit too tight. Time to find my CPR MOW guide book and study what the prototype did.

Glued and soldered the second turnout assemble down this evening.
Tomorrow I hope to install the Blue Point manual switch machines and wire the track. The control rods for the Blue Points will make the modules wider than the standard 12". I will figure some way to deal with that.

Then a quick ballast and add basic scenery. Barring disasters it should be ready to test this weekend.
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Bill Dixon
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:09 pm

"Then a quick ballast and add basic scenery. Barring disasters it should be ready to test this weekend."

Looks great, nice and smooth flow. I glue my wooden ties with Aleene's Tacky glue mainly because it has a handy nozzle for putting down a thin strip. They have no load on them when using PB board ties so once they are in place they can't get out even without glue. For painting the ties with acrylic you might try a very light airbrushing to avoid gumming up the points, airbrush covers with much less paint than brushing. I join different size rails by a couple different methods. If they are fairly close in size I make a stepped joiner by putting a rail joiner on two short scrap pieces of the respective sizes then turning the assembly upside down on an anvil type surface and hitting the bottom of the joiner with a hammer to step it. Once it's stepped I remove it from the scrap rails and place it on the layout and solder it in place, only the top inside of the rails needs to align, the rest doesn't matter. If the two rail sizes are quite different I saw a slot in the larger rail that matches the height of the smaller rail and solder the rail joiner in the slot instead of to the bottom of the taller rail, sorta like filing a step in the taller rail but the slot replaces the filing.....DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby milwrd1 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:25 pm

ctxmf74 wrote:"Then a quick ballast and add basic scenery. Barring disasters it should be ready to test this weekend."

I join different size rails by a couple different methods. If they are fairly close in size I make a stepped joiner by putting a rail joiner on two short scrap pieces of the respective sizes then turning the assembly upside down on an anvil type surface and hitting the bottom of the joiner with a hammer to step it. Once it's stepped I remove it from the scrap rails and place it on the layout and solder it in place, only the top inside of the rails needs to align, the rest doesn't matter. .....DaveB


This will also work, depending on the differences in rail height. Place the rail joiner on the larger rail and crush the exposed piece with a plier (flatten the rail joiner). Then solder the rail with the smaller height to the rail joiner. Clean up with a file.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ConducTTor » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:26 pm

I was also going to suggest a stepped joiner.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby Bill Dixon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:20 pm

Been a busy week.
Both turnouts are now soldered in place and glued down.
I painted the second one with the same acrylic pain I used on the first one, Americana Warm Brown But took my time and thinned the paint, in a few places not much more than a wash on the ties. The painting went much better. Amazing how much better things go when you don't rush. Maybe I will learn that lesson some day. What's that old saying:"Have you learned from your mistakes? Yes I can repeat them perfectly!"<G>

I installed Blue Point Turnout controls and wired the track. After checking with a meter and finding the PC ties that were not properly cut I tried the battery test. Put one of my new CNR SW1200s on the rail and used a nine volt batter to run it. Worked well. Wonder how it will perform in a show environment with Murphy looking over my shoulder.<G>
20140309crossoverwithsw1200.jpg
Here is the module with the crossover with one of my new SWs for scale. (Yes I purchased the second pair of CNR units and more. These SW1200s are addictive, they are so good!)
A whole Tillig Bedding Track turnout is not much longer than a SW1200. These number 6 turnouts are about 1 1/4 SW1200s long from point to frog. They are a much broader radius and better looking turnout.

I have started ballasting today, relearning all those old mistakes. Tomorrow I will add a basic grass covering and then if time permits touch up the ballast. Don't know if it will get a fascia installed before the show, I have other models that need to be worked on. Working on having a functioning module ready, not a pretty one.

The Blue Point turnout controls have two sets of contacts. I am using one set to power the frog. I might use the other set for some basic signals to show which way the turnout is set. I have some ideas but that will be a future project.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ConducTTor » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:56 pm

Bill Dixon wrote:Wonder how it will perform in a show environment with Murphy looking over my shoulder.


If you've done things right, you can tell Murphy to go eff himself :lol:
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby Bill Dixon » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:51 pm

Western Rails was a good show and a bad show for the crossover.

First a shot of the finished, for now, module.
20140316finisshedcrossover.jpg

Then a shot of a train using a crossover made from Tillig 15 degree turnouts.
20140316trainonoldcrossover.jpg

and a shot of the same train on the new crossover made from #6 turnouts.
20140613trainonnewcrossover.jpg

That one image explains why I want number six turnouts. The trains look so much better on them.

As mentioned in the Western Rails thread the crossover failed Sunday.
It ran well for a few hours Saturday during setup. Sunday when it warmed up it developed a short. Checking with a meter revealed that one of the gaps cut to insulate the frog had closed up when the turnout warmed up. The gaps cut by a jewelers saw are very small. I had tried to fill the gaps with superglue to stop them closing up but I either didn't use enough glue or missed this gap. Either way a quick fiddle with a knife blade opened it back up. I will have to see about either making a wider gap of gluing a thin piece of plastic in the gaps.

After fixing that problem we tested the crossover with European equipment with deeper flanges.
As built it failed. The back to back wheel spacing on the European wheel sets is too close to run through these turnouts. The guard rails are in the wrong position. I am going to see if I can move the guard rails in to accommodate the European wheel sets without compromising the operation of North American equipment.

Despite the failure on Sunday I am happy with the results and will build more turnouts starting with a left hand crossover to balance the right hand one I have now. Then I will look into replacing my current crossover modules.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:09 pm

" I am going to see if I can move the guard rails in to accommodate the European wheel sets without compromising the operation of North American equipment."

It should work, I built my test turnout without guard rails and it works fine with Euro , HP, Saz model loco and Gold coast stuff. I haven't bothered installing guard rails yet but you should be able to set them to accommodate the euro wheels back to back distance and just let the smaller flanged stuff run thru without touching the guard rails. These longer froged turnouts can do this because the trucks are not turning sharply when they get to the frog so there's not much force trying to make them pick the frog point......DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby j p » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:27 am

Bill Dixon wrote:That one image explains why I want number six turnouts. The trains look so much better on them.


Agreed. I also like the number 6 turnouts from Filigran better than any Tillig.
The trains would look even better on number 8.

Regarding the guard rails: everything should work if you make it according to the standard. The width of the flanges has an influence, but wrong gauge of either that part of the turnout or the problem cars can be the real cause.
This is not specific to TT scale, I have found this picture of a large scale truck which nicely explains the problem.
It is gauge tolerance + flange width. It does not work if you make the clearance only for the flange width.
http://www.elmassian.com/images/stories/track/outback/outback2003.jpg
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