Fast Tracks TT

Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby richardedmonds » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Bill Dixon wrote:I built a tie jig for my Right Hand Turnout . . . and it worked . . . sort of.
20140218 tie jig.jpg

If you ignore the too tight tie slots in some locations and the fact that some ties ended up being glued into the jig when I tried to glue the ties to the turnout, it worked. It did not quite end up as I had planned. Really a pain in the butt to use and sniffed too much glue making it. Took a half day for the smell to dissipate. This was a job that was best done outside. Except for the 80km winds and blowing rain I would have done so.

Here is an image of a finished turnout.
20140218 Turnout.jpg

I only had a can of flat black spray paint to hand so it is a bit dark.

You can see where the ties are too close together.

There are five wires soldered to it, Red for the back rail, orange for the corresponding section of rail to the left of the frog.
Black to the front rail, grey to the corresponding section of rail to the left of the frog.
And a blue wire to the frog.

The turnout is OK, use able but I won't build another one the same way. Too much fiddly work. There has to be a better way.


Even with the faults you mentioned it still looks pretty real I think
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:28 pm

"Even with the faults you mentioned it still looks pretty real I think"

Yeah, and don't give up on building them. A few more and you'll figure out an easy method and then can build what you need instead of depending on what the manufacturers want to sell. ....DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby Bill Dixon » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:11 am

ctxmf74 wrote:"Even with the faults you mentioned it still looks pretty real I think"

Yeah, and don't give up on building them. A few more and you'll figure out an easy method and then can build what you need instead of depending on what the manufacturers want to sell. ....DaveB


I will build more. With each one I learn a bit more about how to do it faster and get a better looking result.
I hope to have a RH Crossover module to show at Western Rails. It may not be fully sceniced, I will settle for ballast and basic grass but I hope it will be serviceable. We will find out then if code 55 turnouts will handle European flanges. I have concerns about tight clearances in the frog area. If it doesn't work well I will swap it out and just use it for display so others can run their equipment.

I acquired some Peco code 60 rail today. It's not cheap! I will build a turnout or two with it to see how that works.
Only a one day weekend this weekend so I don't expect to get too much done but there will be progress.
Regards
Bill Dixon
TT-Tracks
North Vancouver, BC
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:26 pm

"We will find out then if code 55 turnouts will handle European flanges. I have concerns about tight clearances in the frog area."

When I built my test turnout I used an old Euro flange'd 0-8-0 switcher as a gauge to set the frog spacing and then tried my HP cars and my new Saz model switcher thru the frogs and they all worked fine. I think the key is to make the frog a large number so the wheels can run straight thru it then they are not likely to stray off course. I used a #6 test frog and won't go any sharper than that on my layout....DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby j p » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:15 pm

ctxmf74 wrote:"We will find out then if code 55 turnouts will handle European flanges. I have concerns about tight clearances in the frog area."

When I built my test turnout I used an old Euro flange'd 0-8-0 switcher as a gauge to set the frog spacing and then tried my HP cars and my new Saz model switcher thru the frogs and they all worked fine. I think the key is to make the frog a large number so the wheels can run straight thru it then they are not likely to stray off course. I used a #6 test frog and won't go any sharper than that on my layout....DaveB


I don't see any problem for the frog, it does not have anything to do directly with the height of the rail (code) - but I see a possible problem with the flanges being too high so they would hit the nails.
The approach with trying different engines and cars is very good. I'd add a car with RP25 wheels to the list.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:52 pm

"I'd add a car with RP25 wheels to the list."

I don't have anything with flanges smaller than my HP stuff so I haven't been able to try finer wheels. Their narrowness might be a problem though so I suspect one would have to tighten up the frog clearances a bit and not try to accommodate the larger old Euro equipment flanges, however I'd guess that HP flanges and RP25 flanges cold both get thru a compromise frog.As long as I just run the SazModel, HP, and Gold coast wheels I'm pretty sure my turnouts will be fine, I haven't had a car pick the test one yet....DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby j p » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:52 am

ctxmf74 wrote:"I'd add a car with RP25 wheels to the list."

I don't have anything with flanges smaller than my HP stuff so I haven't been able to try finer wheels. Their narrowness might be a problem though so I suspect one would have to tighten up the frog clearances a bit and not try to accommodate the larger old Euro equipment flanges, however I'd guess that HP flanges and RP25 flanges cold both get thru a compromise frog.As long as I just run the SazModel, HP, and Gold coast wheels I'm pretty sure my turnouts will be fine, I haven't had a car pick the test one yet....DaveB


Why would you tighten up the frog?
RP25 is narrower, but the gauge is unchanged. RP25 requires only finer tolerances for the gauge. RP25's height of the flange is lower and the width of the flange is unchanged.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:40 pm

"Why would you tighten up the frog?"

The Euro wheels are pretty wide and their back to back is narrow so the frog had to be widened for them to get thru. A narrower tread wheel might fall in the widened frog. It would take some experimentation to find the best compromise frog but eliminating the older Euro flanges and just using RP25 and HP flanges should be a lot easier to work out.....DaveB
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby j p » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:36 pm

ctxmf74 wrote:"Why would you tighten up the frog?"

The Euro wheels are pretty wide and their back to back is narrow so the frog had to be widened for them to get thru. A narrower tread wheel might fall in the widened frog. It would take some experimentation to find the best compromise frog but eliminating the older Euro flanges and just using RP25 and HP flanges should be a lot easier to work out.....DaveB


I don't think the wheel profile has any influence on that. It cannot fall in if both have the same gauge no matter how wide the wheels are. The flange on the opposite side wheel prevents the first wheel from falling into the frog's groove no matter how wide that groove is.
Anyway, all Euro flanges can be turned to NMRA, so the problems with too large flanges can be avoided.
The only drawback is that you'd have to run your trains at somehow correct model speed. It requires either new gears for older European models or DCC.
Those large Euro flanges are there to hold the train on the track when running it at Shinkansen speed though a streetcar curve.

If the problem was caused by some really wide flanges, then those are not normal Euro wheels. Only Rokal and early Zeuke models had really wide flanges.
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Re: Fast Tracks TT

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:53 am

"I don't think the wheel profile has any influence on that."

The problem shows up when trying to run large flanged wheels with small flanged wheels, if the frogs are built with wide enough clearance for the large flanges the narrow more scale like wheels will not span the gap where they switch from one rail to the other so they fall down into the frog gap and bump back up out of it. The closer in size the flanges are the easier it is to get smooth running frogs. As I said I'm not concerned about it since I mostly have HP cars and just a few gold coast cars and my Saz model loco which all run fine thru my test switch. Someone with lots of Euro equipment might have a problem trying to mix it with HP or narrower more scale like wheels though.....DaveB
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