DR DB13 question

DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:06 pm

In era 4:

Was it common for the end car to have a control compartment?

Was it normal to have the control compartment but not to be used in push mode?

How often was the train used in push mode and with which locomotives (not counting the Rostock version)?

Also, when did the roof paint change from grey/silver to brown? Are there any differences other than the roof color?
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby Rich B » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:25 am

I can't answer the first two questions, but I can say that I've seen pictures with BR65, 110 family, 118, 242, 243.

I've seen numerous pictures round Berlin, Saalfeld, Chemnitz and Dresden other than Rostock.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby j p » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:29 pm

My first hint would be to type "wendezug" in google images.
It found even BR60 with doubledeckers and a freight train with hoppers.
https://www.google.dk/search?q=wendezug&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_-tSUrLQPKnZ4ASErICIAw&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=945&bih=776&dpr=1.09

Regarding the 2nd half of the question: 50% of the trains would contain the control car but not use it. The train was controlled from the engine when the engine was at the front and from the control car on the way back.
In case of a failure of the controls from the control car, one could find a train with an engine also on the control car's end of the train. Same also if a substitute engine had to be used which could not be controlled by the cable from the control car.

The control cars are very popular in Schleswig-Holstein. The engine is in the middle of the train and there is a control car at each end of the train! (Seen in Friedrichstadt in July)
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:40 pm

Rich B wrote:I've seen pictures with BR65, 110 family, 118, 242, 243.


Same here. But it's hard to tell if they're pushing or pulling. And btw, BR 132s, 119s, 38s, 01.5s were also used.....probably a few others as well.

So I guess my next question is, which of the above locos had the ability to be controlled from the car cab?
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:42 pm

j p wrote:50% of the trains would contain the control car but not use it.


That's what I figured just needed a confirmation.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby Rich B » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:08 pm

ConducTTor wrote:
Rich B wrote:I've seen pictures with BR65, 110 family, 118, 242, 243.


Same here. But it's hard to tell if they're pushing or pulling. And btw, BR 132s, 119s, 38s, 01.5s were also used.....probably a few others as well.



I should have been clearer. These are the loco types I have seen pictures of clearly pushing, ie on right hand track with white lights on the cab car.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Aha! Thanks for clarification.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby LVG1 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:07 pm

ConducTTor wrote:In era 4:

Push-pull-trains operated already in eras II and III—particularly even with steam locomotives. But that's not what you asked for. In era IV steam locomotives were not used any more.

ConducTTor wrote:Was it common for the end car to have a control compartment?

In GDR it was common only in agglomerations with high traffic density. Mainly suburban railroads and few densely used lines were operated with push-pull-trains.

Unfortunately, I don't know how common push-pull-trains were in West Germany.

ConducTTor wrote:Was it normal to have the control compartment but not to be used in push mode?

In GDR in those regions where cab cars were available (see above) they were occasionally also used as back-up for trains which were not operated in push-pull-mode—but this happened rather seldom. So cab cars were used in push-pull-trains most of the time.

Until the early 1970ies, all West German cab cars were equipped with passage ways for changing the car at their cab ends. So they could also be put in the middle of a train. I don't know how frequently this opportunity was used. But I guess, because most of these passage ways were eliminated in the 1970ies, in era IV cab cars were used mainly in push-pull-trains.

ConducTTor wrote:How often was the train used in push mode and with which locomotives (not counting the Rostock version)?

How often... See above.
Which locomotives... depends on the cab car's equipment.
There were two different types of push-pull-control systems. They differed in the number of leads in the control cable and in the allocation of leads. One of these systems was for diesel locomotives and the other one for electric locomotives. When I became familiar with the technology, this conventional push-pull-control system was in the process of abandonment in favor of the new digital system introduced in the 1990ies in East Germany (taken over from West Germany). So I unfortunately don't know much about it. I don't know, if the plug connectors were compatible and if it was possible to switch between both systems. But I guess the cars were only usable for one system. I've seen following combinations (and images of them, respectively):
  • single-story cab cars with electric locomotives only
  • five-segment articulated double decker cars (DGB12) with electric locomotives only
  • four-segment articulated double decker cars (DB13—in era IV: DBvqe and later DBvq) with diesel locomotives only
  • non-articulated double decker coaches with both electric and diesel locomotives
But I've not seen everything. So it's possible that this list is incomplete.

Also the number of locomotives equipped with push-pull-controls was limited:
  • diesel locomotives:
    • V100 family—in era IV: series 110, 112 and 114
    • V180 family—in era IV: series 118 in all configurations
  • electric locomotives:
    • E11 family—in era IV series 211 and 242
    • 212 family—in era IV series 212 and 243
In era IV these were the only ones which could be controlled from a cab car.
Two locomotives of series 232 (in era IV series 132) were equipped with this old-style push-pull-control system only in the early 1990ies for test purposes. They were used with non-articulated double decker coaches on then-suburban line S2 between Dresden's main station and Arnsdorf.
In era V only the West German digital system was newly installed as standard. Series 112, 143, 219, 229, 232 and 234 received this equipment.

ConducTTor wrote:Also, when did the roof paint change from grey/silver to brown? Are there any differences other than the roof color?

1982.
That year DR introduced their new color concept. Inter city traffic became bicolored—emerald green / ivory (except for "Städte-Expreß" which stayed orange / ivory). Commuter traffic stayed single-colored emerald green. And the (non-articulated) double decker coaches became roe brown / light grey. But on all passenger cars the roof's color changed from light grey (not silver) to roe brown. But the transition lasted for several years; I'm not sure if really all roofs were brown when the Berlin wall fell.
Later Rostock's suburban railroad became light blue / ivory and the loop lines around Berlin became orient red / ivory—last of which even again with light grey roofs.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:56 am

Cool thanks everyone! I've loved the DB13 trains since the BTTB days but never knew much other than what I've seen in pictures.
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Re: DR DB13 question

Postby ConducTTor » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:25 am

Completely by accident I ran across this video that clearly shows this type of train. I'm guessing seeing these on video is rare so for anyone interested (starts at 3 minutes):

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