CPR Dominion Car

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CPR Dominion Car

Postby Bill Dixon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:59 pm

As alluded to in the resin wood reefer topic, this week I received two new models that I was not expecting.

One was the Dominion Car, a 36' wood outside braced box car usually know as a Fowler box car because it was built to the Fowler patent.
20130920dominionboxcar.jpg
This model has had a quick coat of paint.

The Fowler patent cars were used in large numbers on Canadian railroads and in lesser numbers on some US railroads. At one point the combined CNR and CPR fleet was 20% of the total North American car fleet. They did wander south into the US so could be seen most anywhere in small numbers.
In later years after modernization they were converted into stock cars, MOW cars, or used in grain service.

The Dominion cars were the mainstay of Canadian railway grain cars to the mid 60s. At that point the immanent demise of the Dominion car fleet due to old age, most were built in the teens, caused the Canadian Government to produce the Canadian Cylindrical Grain hopper that carries todays harvests.

This is a modernized car with a steel door and AB brakes.
It is a one piece body with a separate roof.

This is project 4 and costs $ 25.00 a kit.
Regards
Bill Dixon
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby Arseny » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:47 pm

It seems to be a little bit warped, or I am wrong?
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby Bill Dixon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 pm

Arseny wrote:It seems to be a little bit warped, or I am wrong?


My photography was rushed and in a poor setup.
It looks better than the picture i took.
Regards
Bill Dixon
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby scaro » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:12 pm

i'd love to, but with the accurail inspired howe truss single sheathed cars (really only accurate for canadian cars) i don't have much need for more canadian cars. otherwise the 'exceptions' would overwhelm the 'normal'. if i find a US RR that ran them though that might make a difference, but struggling to do this so far.

marquette posted a shot of a monon 'fowler' that looked like it might be a 36' car, many moons ago.
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby scaro » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:24 pm

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/mode ... 4main.html

hmmm, some were still around in the early fifties. this one was apparently on the O&W in 1953. an obscure car type from an obscure railroad on another even more obscure railroad.

none of that santa fe, UP type stuff here ...
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby Bill Dixon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:10 pm

To quote the NEB&W guide to Steam-Era Freight Car Modelling 1995 edition;
"Fowler Patent cars are easy to identify. For one thing, most 36 foot box cars that were single sheathed, were Fowler because the Fowler design was the first type of single-sheathed box cars put into production."
Page 129, Revised 5/30/94, NEB&W guide to Steam-Era Freight Car Modelling by John Nehrich.

The list of railroads with 36' box cars in 1949 includes over 100 railroads. Granted not all of these were Fowler Patent cars but that is still an impressive list of railroads with 36 foot box cars.

Railroads that specifically had versions of the Fowler Patent cars are:
B&O from the Cincinnati, Indianpois & Western
Canadian National - 23,000 + of various types.
Canadian Pacific - 23,000 + of various types.
Central of New Jersey
Central of Pennsylvania - a CNJ subsidiary
Monon
Erie
Grand Trunk Western
Mexicano
Nacionales de Mexico
New York, Susquhanna & Western
NKP
Ontario Northland
Pacific Great Eastern
Quebec Central
Roberval & Saquenay
Soo Line.

For those of you who want a prototypical railroad name there should be something for you there.
Until the unlikely day that the correct car is made for your favorite railroad the model will do as a stand in for older cars.
Those of you with fictitious railroads can have as many as you want.
It is also useful in MOW trains or sitting in the weeds as a shed.

The model can be back dated by replacing the steel door with a wood door, removing the brake bits and adding a K/C Brake.

While it is a Canadian car to a CPR prototype it is a useful addition to the TT-Scale car fleet.
Regards
Bill Dixon
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North Vancouver, BC
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby scaro » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:02 am

There's a school of wisdom that says the Canadian Fowlers didn't trespass over the border by a certain point, as the brakes weren't updated by a cut-off date in 1953. But this died a quick death on on STMFC when it came up. One example very late was the CV where they ran down into New England until the 1960s, apparently. There were many other examples, tending to relate to CN owned lines like the DW&P.

I should note I am looking at the 'transition' era in the US and have lately been viewing trackside vids of trains passing on the CNJ /LV in the 50s through the 60s. Not much evidence of 36 footers in that time; 1955 or so? In fact, not one. Hence my comment about exceptions. If an American modeller models up near the Canadian border it seems like an exception that occurred a lot. Otherwise, well, it gets complex ... I would tend to want a lot of US boxcars of different types to hide it among.

There's a thread on STMFC about 36' Fowler and 'almost Fowler' cars. In the US, 36' s/s cars seem to have been one of those things that were there, then a decade later, they weren't.

It is said that in 1942, there were more 36' cars- of all types- than 50' cars. If you are a steam era modeller, you need lots.

Some RRs were noted for rostering large numbers. One was the New Haven, who didn't even have a steel boxcar till 1941. And the D&H; 62% of their fleet was still 36' composite cars in 1949. That was a little bit rare in the East, more so for a road near the cement region. Apparently a big issue with RRs that carried a lot of cement, prior to the hopper era, was leaks in boxcars. A leaky roof or side could turn a boxcar loaded with bags of cement into a solid block of same. So many Eastern RRs that hauled a lot of cement went for all steel cars early.

36' DS cars seem to have lasted later. MP and NC&StL even rebuilt them as 36' steel cars.

I tried to find information about the Monon cars as midwestern RRs tended to keep composite cars on their rosters late, for use in the grain season. But information is scant. 'Marquette' listed Monon 2000-3600 as 40' Fowler clones but I think they are probably 36 'ers (and no idea if they were Fowler clones.)

One good example of late survivors were the Illinois Terminal's 36' s/s cars which Sunshine produced in HO, labelling the flyer 'Geriatric Park' ! http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun78b.pdf These cars are interesting; 50 were still left in 1961. I suspect this alone made them celebrities and popular choices for modellers, a bit like the WA&G and NP composite boxcars that made it into the 1970s. I can see a model of this one coming on: http://www.proto48.org/p48_photos_zwernemann.htm

As for NYS&W and Erie, while they may have been on the roster, I doubt the NYS&W ones at least were used much and wonder if they made it into the 50s. NYS&W was in a modernising phase then - it had been cut loose from the Erie and was kitting itself out with steel boxcars, corrugated coaches, RDCs and diesels; a brief window of sunshsine that ended in the downturn of 1957-58. But hand-me-downs from the Erie were purged from Susie-Q's roster at a rate of knots.

I get a sense that as the 50s drift on, 36' s/s boxcars become a 'point of distinction' between US and Canadian RRs, as CN and CP had so many, while they were just about eliminated in the US. Even the steel NC&StL ones, c.1000 built into the 1940s, but by 1960 just 60 were left.

As to the CNJ examples. My mind has been exercised re CNJ cars over the past few days. Reason being, I fished out the RailTT cars which are fine models but at the same time, I wonder what exactly I could use them for. There's a good article from Feb 2003 in 'RailModel Journal' which can be read for free on the Trainlife site; it focuses on CNJ's 40' composite Z section truss s/s cars and modelling one using the Accurail HO version (same as the Rail TT one) . I discussed this also with Eric Lombard from the Burlington list who has a handy Excel spreadsheet for research purposes; I tried and failed to find an example of something from the US that the RailTT car could be used for. So my two become CN and GTW. I ended up deciding to do an 8' IH one which will end up either as a CNJ or a Burlington one. These ancient cars were not long for this world by the early 50s. If their survival was that tenuous, I wonder how far CNJ's 36' s/s cars made it past 1949. It would be handy if they did as they were apparently 'Fowler like' acording to comments- see post #76980 on STMFC. But you have to guess it's unlikely.
scaro
 

Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby Bill Dixon » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:16 pm

scaro wrote:There's a school of wisdom that says the Canadian Fowlers didn't trespass over the border by a certain point, as the brakes weren't updated by a cut-off date in 1953. But this died a quick death on on STMFC when it came up. One example very late was the CV where they ran down into New England until the 1960s, apparently. There were many other examples, tending to relate to CN owned lines like the DW&P.

There's a thread on STMFC about 36' Fowler and 'almost Fowler' cars. In the US, 36' s/s cars seem to have been one of those things that were there, then a decade later, they weren't.

That seems to be true, except for Canadian Railways.
On US roads they were there and then bigger cars came along and the 36 footers were gone.
In Canada they survived til the mid 60's in grain service. The railroads were losing money moving wheat so they did not invest any money in new cars for that service.

scaro wrote:I tried to find information about the Monon cars as midwestern RRs tended to keep composite cars on their rosters late, for use in the grain season. But information is scant. 'Marquette' listed Monon 2000-3600 as 40' Fowler clones but I think they are probably 36 'ers (and no idea if they were Fowler clones.)

My info shows series 2000 to 3599 as 36' Fowlers. All gone by 1949 except MOW service of course.

The NYS&W cars lasted to 1951 and were noted as not used in interchange service.

Erie had two classes of cars. Some of one series 93000-93999 were updated to A/B brakes.
Regards
Bill Dixon
TT-Tracks
North Vancouver, BC
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby scaro » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:34 am

Bill, do you mind if i post that image of the car in STMFC? I want to see if I can get some pointers for other US cars it might be right for.

And for US modellers, SOO line expert Dennis Storzek posted the following which is handy to know :


The Soo Line (found alphabetized in steam era equipment registers under M) had one group of cars nearly identical to the Canadian cars, built in 1912. This was 750 cars, numbered 12800 - 14298, even numbers only. They were built with outside metal roofs having some sort of round seam caps, but in later years had roofs with twelve flat rectangular seam caps, counting those at the ends of the roof. Original trucks had Bettendorf T section sideframes, later changed to Andrews. It sounds like the only real difference is the door, the Soo cars were built with top supported wood doors which they retained throughout their entire lives. The January 1958 ORER shows 19 cars remaining; all were retired by January 1961


So the door would need to be changed, but that's about it ...

Ben
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Re: CPR Dominion Car

Postby scaro » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:00 am

Just to note that I have put an xls spreadsheet of owners of Dominion cars into the transition era, on the General Discussions board- it's at the top in a new section Alex created. Hope it is handy.

Ben
Last edited by scaro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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