Coal hopper molds

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby Bill Dixon » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:41 am

Two more schemes to consider.

The first is Pennsylvania.
PRR 2-Bay Hopper.jpg
Again the problem is lost small lettering. What I can't read on the picture i can't reproduce. Of course being small it may not be possible do on a decal.

And another for Marquette - the Pere Marquette.
PM 2-Bay Hopper.jpg

Here the problem is not reproducing the lettering but finding the correct font. Pere Marquette used their own version of a Roman Font. Here I used a font called 'Windsor LtCn BT' which is close but does not have all the funk letter variation that the PM use. The Q is wrong and the M is different. Baring finding an actual TrueType font for PM or finding the hours of time to make the font, this will have to do.

Of course there may be an issue with making decals with this small lettering. I may have to increase the lettering size to make it visible/legible. That may make the model look too incorrect. We will see. I will make some time to do trial prints in the next few days.
Regards
Bill Dixon
TT-Tracks
North Vancouver, BC
Bill Dixon
 
Posts: 1001
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: North Vancouver, B.C.

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby ART&DETAIL » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:33 am

scaro wrote:interesting. this is a ten panel one. wonder what prototype?


Yes, it is correct. The protopype is my first complete model!

A&D
Michael
ART&DETAIL
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:37 am
Location: Munich

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby ART&DETAIL » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:54 am

Hello Bill,

This was my submission for the model

A&D
Michael
Attachments
PS-3%20Hopper%20(side).jpg
submission 2bay open hopper
ART&DETAIL
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:37 am
Location: Munich

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby scaro » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:57 am

bill

a technique which might be used to make other hoppers - given you guys seem to have eight and ten panel ones in the works and it seems easy to come up with pre-lettered paper sides.

the only external details on most old hopper sides are ribs and raised rivets. (with raised detail this is a good technique- it does not work so well where detail is recessed.)

rivets are not hard to do by making a jig on a piece of cardboard to help locate the lines of rivets ,turning over a printed side and using the riveting rolling tool to punch lines of rivets through from the reverse side. or do it manually with a sharpened noticeboard pin.

then the side can be laminated to a styrene sheet with MEK, which can be cut out, and external ribs carefully fixed with MEK. MEK is a clear solvent and not a glue, so styrene can be glued to paper with no discolouration or other problems. the ribs would need to be painted.

this would solve the decal problem, as lettering usually is only on the flat part of the wagon side.

the most difficult bit is locating lines of rivets correctly; they must be punched through from the reverse side of the printed paper.

this technique is an old one. many, many australian models were produced this way until everyone fell in love with resin casting in the 70s. (they fell out of love with it later, for the same reasons many people are currently falling out of love with shapeways.)

some manufacturers even did recessed side detail, stamping wagons in indented cardboard and just printing minor details like rivets, which are so small it's hard to tell if they are 2-D or 3-D anyway. they generally looked better than decalled wagons but the cardboard could fray badly over time. however i do not think thin pieces of paper laminated onto styrene will have these problems. i think some kind of fixative is essential to protect the paper long term.
scaro
 

Re: Coal hopper molds - paper sides?

Postby railtwister » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:34 am

Hi Ben,

There are printing process currently in use for greeting cards, business cards, and other things, that uses special expanding inks for a three dimensional effect. I believe this is a similar process to the one being used to produce 3D rivet and weld detail on decal film that is popular with the1/35 scale armor modelers, and probably also similar to some of the 3D brick and texture papers offered by Micro Mark and others. This process could also be used to produced printed car sides with 3D rivet details. The ribs on a hopper car would likely be another story, however, and if printed would probably result in similar layering and warping problems as seen in the Shapeways process. To avoid this potential problem, they could easily be strips of styrene applied by the modeler.

I thought the examples Bill has been displaying here were just lettering samples of potential decals for the resin hopper cars, rather than exploring printed paper car side possibilities. Paper models are less than ideal for use in Florida, where I live, since so many insects consider them a delicacy, and varying humidity changes causes severe warping problems.

Bill in FtL
railtwister
 
Posts: 698
Images: 4
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:39 am
Location: Oakland Park (Ft. Lauderdale), FL, USA

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby scaro » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:19 pm

i'd have to look into that further but i've seen some models in sydney, which has similar weather to florida, which were very old and doing OK. i doubt paper does well without some kind of backing to laminate it to, and i think it would need some kind of fixative sprayed on it for protection.
scaro
 

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby j p » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:22 pm

Bill Dixon wrote:Two more schemes to consider.

The first is Pennsylvania.
The attachment PRR 2-Bay Hopper.jpg is no longer available
Again the problem is lost small lettering. What I can't read on the picture i can't reproduce. Of course being small it may not be possible do on a decal.

And another for Marquette - the Pere Marquette.
The attachment PRR 2-Bay Hopper.jpg is no longer available

Here the problem is not reproducing the lettering but finding the correct font. Pere Marquette used their own version of a Roman Font. Here I used a font called 'Windsor LtCn BT' which is close but does not have all the funk letter variation that the PM use. The Q is wrong and the M is different. Baring finding an actual TrueType font for PM or finding the hours of time to make the font, this will have to do.

Of course there may be an issue with making decals with this small lettering. I may have to increase the lettering size to make it visible/legible. That may make the model look too incorrect. We will see. I will make some time to do trial prints in the next few days.


Yes, we need a photo of the prototype in a good resolution.
I found one more photo of the prototype and then dozens of photos of models, each of them with different lettering.

prr-gla-166658-500.jpg
PRR GLa


I would make some space in between the lines of text on the left side of your lettering, then add "PRR" under the logo. I cannot read the fine text either, could it be reweigh and repack locations?
PRR 2-Bay Hopper.jpg

Check page 7 here: http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_PDFs/TKM%20No.%2078%20-%20Autumn%202011.pdf

This link could help too:
http://www.mountvernonshops.com/GLA.html
He has the artwork for H0, perhaps he could scale it to TT?
He actually offeres other scales, he needs 15-20 orders though.

How about PRR H31? It looks almost the same as GLa to me. The angled supports plates are not there, but it has a different kind of support inside instead.
http://www.mountvernonshops.com/H31.html
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
j p
 
Posts: 1194
Images: 69
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby ART&DETAIL » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:08 pm

You get all drawings by "N&W Historical Society"

Michael
Attachments
NW-F30176_07-22-1949.gif
NW-F30176_07-22-1949
NW-J39822_01-03-1961.gif
NW-J39822_01-03-1961
ART&DETAIL
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:37 am
Location: Munich

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby Bill Dixon » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:37 am

Finally made time to assemble and paint two cars.

Now for the big question Decals or Dry Transfers.

I can, again, print my own decals with my ALPs printers. Only took an evening through into the morning to figure out why the printer didn't work. Started with an unplugged cable then through various variations of the printer driver before the AH-HA factor struck. Finally remembered the printer driver Only works with LPT1. The real LPT1 not the renumbered one. Swapped cables around re installed the new driver and printed a test page. Only had a half sheet of decal so used that. Screwed up the orientation when it printed but got enough good bits to do a few cars.

The there is the possibility of Dry Transfers. We have a local company that will do a full 9" x 12" sheet for a reasonable price from scratch. I like the fresh dry transfers they make. Incredibly easy to use. Even though it is expensive for the first page I am going to have a sheet made. Subsequent prints are cheaper as the print film is made the first time. Should be able to get the price down to $5.00 a set. If they are good enough I will go with them and use the ALPs for very short runs of special cars.

Here is the sheet I am working on.
First TT Scale Decal Sheet.jpg

Each set has the numbers to do four different cars. The sheet is currently heavy on dry transfers for my railroads and I have a few items tacked on at the bottom for flat cars and cabooses. I think I will drop two Western Mary Land sets and choose two more schemes.

If this works out OK maybe more sets in the future.
Regards
Bill Dixon
TT-Tracks
North Vancouver, BC
Bill Dixon
 
Posts: 1001
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:57 pm
Location: North Vancouver, B.C.

Re: Coal hopper molds

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:55 am

You have an ALPS printer! Will have to remember that......
What people think: "liberals/conservatives are ruining my country"
What the powerful know: divide and conquer
User avatar
ConducTTor
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8293
Images: 13
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Atlanta GA USA

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest