Can motor for HP steamer?

Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Murad » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:21 pm

Did anybody try to upgrade pittman DC-60 to a can motor? I'm trying to restore a HP 4-6-6-4 and made it runnig today but the motor becomes REALLY hot after a few minutes of running. So is there any suggestions which motor to use with it?
WTB any of the HP Products locomotive parts
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby dileTTante » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:50 pm

I'm not a fan of HP locomotives and I am not an expert on how they work. But I think the motor is robust and overheating means that something else is wrong. So I offer these suggestions -- the motor in the locomotive should turn freely just by pushing the armature from underneath with a toothpick or something like that. The motor can bind if the worm gear is not lined up properly, or if something is not right with the connecting rods and linkage. The motor itself should be tested outside the locomotive to make sure it needs replacing. Maybe you have done these things already.
- Terry C
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby areibel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:55 pm

The only one I've seen with a can motor was a small HP loco, either a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 and they used a small gear tower with a worm gear so the can motor can mount flat (with the shaft parallel to the frame). I think that might be hard to do in one of those big ones though!
There could be some things you can do- first make sure the gear mesh is not too tight, a thin piece of paper or brass under the motor may help that. And another issue could be the magnet of the motor is getting weak, check out this topic- old-pittman-motors-t1051-10.html?hilit=motor%20magnet#p10042

I remember Richard Edmonds (I think) investigating using a stack of replacement Neodymium magnets in place of the original Alnico one, but I haven't found that yet. In the old days you could get a weak magnet re-magnatized, but I don't know of anywhere that can still do something like that, we're too modern!
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby areibel » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 pm

OK, if I would have just kept reading the section about the replacement magnets is in the same topic.
I don't know if Richard or anyone else ever tried it though
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Richard-B » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

dileTTante wrote:I'm not a fan of HP locomotives and I am not an expert on how they work.
Seconded...
In my opinion the HP engines require a MAJOR re-build to become usable on modern layouts. The BIG issue is DCC...

Doing a DCC (+sound and keep-alive) upgrade means pulling the motor and gearbox, isolating the motor from the frame, and rewiring the entire engine with as many power pick-up points as you can find (i.e. ALL wheels...)

If you are going to do all that work, I think there is little point in trying to revive a 30+ year-old open frame Pittman or KTM, and a modern 'can' or similar motor with a flywheel is the way to go.

For reference... here is page 4-7 from the NWSL Catalog... which shows their thoughts on motor placement, including articulated.
NWSL Gears p4-7.pdf
NWSL Catalog Page 4-7
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Bigsix2102 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:21 am

May I make a suggestion regarding new magnents for the old HP Motor? Go to Micro-Mark and they should still have in inventory, magnents for that old Pittman DC Motor. I bought them myself, the installation is fairly simple, and they will bring that old motor back to life. Mr. Bob.
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Murad » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:57 am

areibel wrote:OK, if I would have just kept reading the section about the replacement magnets is in the same topic.
I don't know if Richard or anyone else ever tried it though


Thats an idea! Will try to change magnets!
WTB any of the HP Products locomotive parts
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby dileTTante » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:45 am

Richard-B wrote:HP engines require a MAJOR re-build to become usable on modern layouts. The BIG issue is DCC...

Doing a DCC (+sound and keep-alive) upgrade means pulling the motor and gearbox, isolating the motor from the frame, and rewiring the entire engine with as many power pick-up points as you can find (i.e. ALL wheels...)
My HP 4-6-2 has run for hours at a time on DCC and none of those things were done to it. The motor does not need to be isolated from the frame. Just connect both motor brushes directly to the decoder. In its DC state all drivers on one side get electrical pickup; all tender wheels on the opposite rail get electrical pick up. This is enough for DCC. Major rewiring is not needed.

New Pittman motors are available, but I haven't checked sizes.
https://www.haydonkerkpittman.com/produ ... -dc-motors

-Terry C
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Bigsix2102 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:14 pm

Mr. Murad: Guess what? I have tried the Micro-Mark replacement magnents in the Pittman DC Motor. Simply remove the old magnents and stack the new magnents on top of each other in the space where the old magnent was formally occupied. The new magnents are in the shape of "bricks." Thus, stack them one on top of the other. Once done, turn the motor with electricity. If the armature spins in the opposite direction, simply take the new magnents out & turn them around, restack one on top of the other & you should be good. The whole procedure is simple and it works! Mr. Bob.
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Re: Can motor for HP steamer?

Postby Bigsix2102 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:23 pm

Mr. Murad: If the stock # is still good here it is from my Micro Mark Bill of 2014: Item # 84991 located in Bin # C299. They are described by Micro-Mark as : "Super Magnets." In 2014, I paid $29.95 (exclusive of shipping) for 20 magnets. The phone # for Micro-Mark should be: 1-800-225-1066. Now Mr. Murad, how do you like all of this specificity? Mr. Bob-the N-Scale Steam Guy who occasionally dabbles in TT-Scale!
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