Boxcar Types by Railroad

Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby Marquette » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:32 am

I realised that if I try to do a survey of every boxcar type of the railways that owned 20000 boxcars or more, this will be an enormous project that would take a very long time to do. And, too, I realised that it's a bit more than is needed for the purposes of determining what are the most likely cars of these roads you'd see, or to put it another way, which cars of each road one should model.

So, instead of continuing on like how I've started, I decided that for each of these roads, I'll cover only the ten-largest boxcar types in detail, though I'll still do the list like in the first Pennsy post.

So, here's three more Pennsy classes, which will round out their top ten.

X41b
PRR 119677.jpg

Number series: 118491-119990 (1496)

X43b
PRR 600635.jpg

Number series: 85400-86399 (999), 600000-601999 (1999)

X43c
Number series: 70400-71899 (1498)

No picture, unfortunately, however, similar to X43b but with 8' door instead of 7'.
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby scaro » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:22 am

i'm grateful for whatever you post on this area, frank, as it's all quite interesting to an ignoramus such as myself.

although, from the selfish standpoint, i am sad that i will not see a posting on the top ten classes of G&F boxcar! (near as i can work out, it was fowler, double sheathed and 50' PS1s anyway)

maybe top ten of P&N though? :wink:
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby Marquette » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:13 am

Did the G&F /have/ ten classes of boxcar? :P

P&N-wise, there were:

500-509 - 50' PS-1 built 1966, to SCL 1969, renumbered slowly to SCL 740500-740509, seven left in 1978.
1100-1123 - 40' double-sheathed, ex-PM USRA clones (PM 85000 and 86000 series)
10000-10005 - d/s, gone by 1942
11000-11024 - d/s probably, very little known, no known photos
11500 - ventilated box gone by 1935, little further info
12000-12074 - 36' Fowler clone, very like the CN Fowlers with 6' doors, gone by 1942
24000-24164 - 40' 1-1/2 door single-sheath, to AC&Y in 1939 (used into the 1970s). Very like PM 88000-90349 series

If you want, if I can find it I can send you the edition of the Seaboard - Coast Line Modeler that has Part 1 of my P&N freight car article (I don't have a copy of part 2!), Part 1 covers boxcars, Part 2 covers everything else with some extra boxcar info...
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby scaro » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:14 pm

I do doubt it ... all I've seen of G&F indicates two variants of the Fowler, I've got a single shot of a USRA double sheathed one and they got 100 50' PS1s in 1959. There is a comment that prior to this almost all their boxcars were wood, so maybe they had one or two older steel ones, I don't know.

The PS1 purchase came about only because a G&F guy personally settled a dispute by delivering a cheque for repairs to the fence of a woman who turned out to be the sister of longtime US Senator Strom Thurmond, when it was damaged in a storm, along the Greenwood extension. He was impressed with them and told the G&F guy that whenever they needed help, they should call on him. When they went shopping for the boxcars they desperately needed Federal finance, so they called in the favour, Thurmond pulled the strings and they got their money. The G&F oldtimers reminisced that this was the best $700 they'd ever spent ...

Yes, I'd like to see that back ed of the SCL Modeller with the PN article ... if you have a pdf of it etc.

Cheers

Ben
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby Marquette » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:38 am

In the January 1953 ORER the G&F listed a grand total of 305 boxcars:

5002, a 40' steel underframe car - dimensionally very close to 7246-7500 and 8001-8060 series cars. Inside dimensions and cubic capacity are identical, but 1.5" shorter overall and 2" taller overall.

5004, a 36' steel underframe car, 6" taller than a 36' Fowler, but possibly is double-sheathed.

7246-7500, 40' Fowler-clone with 7/8 Murphy ends, built 1926 (I have two in-service photos of these, 7439 and 7482).

8001-8060, 40' Fowler-clone with 3/4 inverse Dreadnaught ends, built 1927 by AC&F (I have a builders' photo of 8060).

9001, 40' all-steel boxcar. Strange dimensions - 40' 7" inside length and 8' 10" inside height. This might be something home built or rebuilt , I have no idea and no guess till I get a picture...
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby scaro » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:00 pm

Thanks Frank. I'll have to see what I can unearth about the all-steel car. Could have been a home-build too perhaps.
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby Marquette » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:01 pm

Southern Pacific

The Southern Pacific had 30346 boxcars in service as of January 1953, meaning that for our postulated 100-boxcar fleet we would need 4 SP boxcars.

The SP is probably the easiest to deal with for TT scale, as 17887 of those 30346 boxcars - more than half - were of the 1937 AAR design - the model produced by Gold Coast. After the 1937 standard cars, the next biggest group at January 1953 was the 1924 ARA single-sheath standard design, with a total of 1817 cars in three classes (ARA, B-50-15 and B-50-16).

So, for most model freight car fleets, the most reflective of SP type-distribution is the simplest course of action: for however many SP cars you need, use the Gold Coast models!

Gold Coast has models of SP cars with four different running numbers available - 37889, 38014, 38265 and 38306, all belonging to class B-50-19. It's unfortunate that Gold Coast didn't select numbers from the 33270-33519 or 33520-33569 number series (both class B-50-18), as the model would be almost bang-on accurate for those cars. The only difference between these and the model are the trucks, which are ASF-made AAR trucks on the 33270 series and Bettendorf-made AAR trucks on the 33520 series. This is a minor detail, though, as the ASF A-3 "Ride Control" truck under the Gold Coast kits are quite similar in appearance to the AAR truck design - the biggest difference being the positioning of the springs, and a slightly different upper arc on the sideframe. This is well within tolerance for accuracy in TT!

However, the models aren't quite bang-on accurate for the models that Gold Coast chose - the difference being (apart from the trucks, which on the prototypes were ASF-built ARAs for 37889 and 38014, and Bettendorf-built ARAs for the other two) are the brakewheels: B-50-19 cars in the 37840-38089 series had Ureco brakewheels and those in the 38090-38339 series had Universal brakewheels, while the model has Ajax wheels. A small difference, yes - but these wheels are noticeably different from the Ajax wheels. This isn't something that can be corrected at the immediate moment, though, until some other brakewheels are produced, probably as etchings.

What I'm going to do for the SP then, is to present the various classes into which their 1937 AAR-design boxcars were divided, providing the info on the various distinctive features whether these are modellable yet in TT or not.

For reference/comparison, the Gold Coast model has 6' Youngstown doors, square-cornered 4/5 Dreadnaught ends, wood running boards, raised-panel roof, Ajax brake wheel and ASF A-3 trucks.

B-50-18
Total 1705 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in the class were 6' Youngstown doors, square-cornered 4/5 Dreadnaught ends, wood running boards and raised-panel roof. These features all match the GC model.

32770-33119
Ureco brake wheels, ASF-made AAR trucks.

33120-33269
Klasing brake wheels, ASF-made AAR trucks.

33270-33519
Ajax brake wheels, ASF-made AAR trucks. Overlooking the tiny differences between the AAR and A-3 trucks, the GC model would be a bang-on match for cars in this series.

33520-33569
Ajax brake wheels, Bettendorf-made AAR trucks. Overlooking the tiny differences between the AAR and A-3 trucks, the GC model would be a bang-on match for cars in this series.

33570-34019
Universal brake wheels, Bettendorf-made AAR trucks.

34020-34519
Equipco brake wheels, Bettendorf-made AAR trucks.

B-50-19
Total 971 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are 6' Youngstown doors, square-cornered 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and raised-panel roof. With the exception of the 37840-38089 series, which had ASF-made AAR trucks, all cars in this class had Bettendorf-made AAR trucks.

37840-38089
Wood running boards, Ureco brake wheel. Gold Coast models exist for 37889 and 38014.

38090-38339
Wood running boards, Universal brake wheel. Gold Coast models exist for 38265 and 38306.

38340-38439
Apex running boards, Universal brake wheel.

38440-38539
Apex running boards, Ajax brake wheel.

38540-38589
Apex running boards, Equipco brake wheel.

38590-38839
Wood running boards, Equipco brake wheel.

B-50-20
Total 1478 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are the raised-panel roof, Apex running boards, Equipco brake wheels and W-post 4/5 Dreadnaught ends. The W-post 4/5 end differs from the square-cornered 4/5 end in the shape of the corners: the square-cornered 4/5 has (obviously) squared corners, whereas the later variant of the 4/5 Dreadnaught with W-posts in the corners has a more rounded appearance. While HO is big enough in size to make this difference quite obvious on a model, in N scale you have to look fairly closely to see it; I'm not convinced TT will be big enough in size for the difference to be as obvious as in HO, but perhaps it is, I won't know until I see it tried. For my purposes, however, I think the corner shape is irrelevant, so long as the end is correctly a 4/5 Dreadnaught.

83240-83739
6' 7-panel Superior doors, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks and Barber stabilisers.

83740-84739
6' Youngstown doors, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

B-50-21
Total 1240 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are 6' Youngstown doors, raised panel roof, W-post 4/5 Dreadnaught ends and ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

81990-82489
Apex running board, Klasing brake wheel.

82490-82989
Gypsum running board, Equipco brake wheel.

82990-83239
Apex running board, Equipco brake wheel.

B-50-23
Total 1729 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are raised-panel roof and W-post 4/5 Dreadnaught ends. This class would be very difficult to model using the Gold Coast car due to the 7' doors.

95520-95619
7' Youngstown door, Apex running board, Equipco brake wheel, Scullin-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

95620-95863
7' Youngstown door, Apex running board, Klasing brake wheel, Scullin-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

96220-96719
7' 7-panel Superior door, Gypsum running board, Equipco brake wheel, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks and Barber stabilisers.

96720-96819
7' 7-panel Superior door, Apex running board, Equipco brake wheel, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks and Barber stabilisers.

96820-96919
7' Youngstown door, Apex running board, Equipco brake wheel, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks and Barber stabilisers.

96920-97369
7' Youngstown door, Apex running board, Ureco brake wheel, Bettendorf-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

97370-97619
7' Youngstown door, Apex running board, Ureco brake wheel, ASF-made AAR trucks with spring planks.

Here end the cars made before the war, and with that, the cars that are easiest to model with the Gold Coast car, for the most part needing only a different running board and/or brake wheel.

Unline most railroads, after the war the SP continued to opt for boxcars of the 1937 design with a 10' inside height, unlike the 10' 6" inside height of the 1944 AAR design. The SP's postwar 1937 cars adapted features from the 1944 AAR design, however, notably the use of the Improved Dreadnaught end, ASF A-3 "Ride Control" trucks, improved Youngstown doors and, later, diagonal-panel roofs. These differences are very significant and distinctive - too much so, in my opinion, to allow for the use of the GC car as-is to represent them.

B-50-24
Total 448 cars (1/53)

Number series 97620-98069. 6' early-type improved Youngstown doors, raised panel roof, Morton running board, early-type 3/4 Improved Dreadnaught end, Miner brake wheel, ASF A-3 trucks, alternate-centre rivets along the panel seams on the sides (this is a doubled row of rivets along the panel seams). This feature could probably be reproduced using Archer rivet decals.

B-50-25
Total 1735 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are 7' improved Youngstown doors, raised panel roof, early-type 3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, ASF A-3 trucks and 12 panel sides, as opposed to the 10-panel sides found on the model and all other classes of 1937 AAR car on the SP. As such, probably unmodellable with the GC car.

20500-21199
Morton running board, Miner brake wheel.

21200-21499
Morton running board, Equipco brake wheel.

21500-21749
Morton running board, Universal brake wheel.

21750-22249
Apex running board, Ajax brake wheel.

B-50-26
Total 1497 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are 6' doors (though of various designs), raised-panel roof, early-type 3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends and ASF A-3 trucks.

58920-59169
Apex running board, Miner brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

59170-59419
Gypsum running board, Ajax brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

59420-59749
Morton running board, Equipco brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

60250-60439
Morton running board, Equipco brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

60440-60689
Morton running board, Miner brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

60690-60849
Morton running board, Ajax brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

60850-60949
Gypsum running board, Ajax brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

60950-61189
Gypsum running board, Equipco brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

B-50-27
Total 2090 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars of this class are 7' doors (of varying types), raised-panel roof, early-type 3/4 Dreadnaught ends and ASF A-3 trucks. The 101875-102099 series cars, which have Equipco brake wheels, but all others have Ajax brake wheels.

100000-100699
Apex running board, improved Youngstown doors.

100700-101249
Gypsum running board, improved Youngstown doors.

101250-101474
Gypsum running board, 7-panel Superior doors.

101475-101874
Morton running board, 7-panel Superior doors.

101875-102099
Morton running board, 7-panel Superior doors, Equipco brake wheel.

B-50-28
Total 2994 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are late-type 3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal-panel roof, 7' doors (of varying types) and ASF A-3 trucks.

102100
Apex running board, Miner brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

102101-102599
Apex running board, Miner brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

102600-103099
Apex running board, Champion brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

103100-103599
Morton running board, Equipco brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

104100-104224
Gypsum running board, Miner brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

104225-104599
Apex running board, Miner brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

104600-104849
Apex running board, Champion brake wheel, improved Youngstown doors.

104850-105099
Apex running board, Equipco brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

105100-105299
Morton running board, Miner brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

105300-105549
Morton running board, Champion brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

105550-105599
Morton running board, Universal brake wheel, 7-panel Superior doors.

B-50-29
Total 500 cars (1/53)

103600-104099 series. 7' improved Youngstown doors, late-type Improved Dreadnaught ends, diagonal-panel roof, Ajax brake wheel, Apex running board, ASF A-3 trucks.

B-50-31
Total 1500 cars (1/53)

Common to all cars in this class are late-type 3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, 7' improved Youngstown doors, Apex running boards and diagonal-panel roof.

105600-105949
Miner brake wheel, ASF A-3 trucks.

105950-105999
Ajax brake wheel, ASF A-3 trucks.

106000-106399
Ajax brake wheel, Barber S-2 trucks (friction bearing, not roller bearing).

106400-106799
Miner brake wheel, Barber S-2 trucks (friction bearing, not roller bearing).

106800-107099
Ajax brake wheel, Barber S-2 trucks (friction bearing, not roller bearing).
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby richardedmonds » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:18 am

Anybody know where I can get a decent drawing/photos showing general PS1 roof and roofwalk details
Cheers guys

Richard, who is freezing on his return from Mallorca where it was lovely and hot
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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby ConducTTor » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:44 pm

The only thing I can find is this -maybe there's a PS1 in there.


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Re: Boxcar Types by Railroad

Postby dileTTante » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:59 pm

Giggle search turned up this -- http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery ... smain.html

The photos in the gallery are the usual side views, but in some of the photos the roof structure can be seen. There are also links which might lead to something.

This page - http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine% ... ults&q=ps1 - lists magazine articles about PS-1 such as Railroad Model Craftsman February 2009. A local hobby shop has back issues of model magazines. I'll take a look next time I'm there.
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