Available North American Prototypes

Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Tue May 20, 2014 3:00 pm

Shipsure wrote:If you have a copy of the June 99 issue of Mainline Modeler you see building any definitive PS1 50' Boxcar is fraught with peril. Doors range from 7' to doubles at 15, lower sills were all over the place...even the panel count is different between road orders. Need a emoticon for pulling my hair out. :) Even if you settled on the 8' as a proto, you would only be gaining a few proto roads before you started down the Fudge Bunny Trail.


I don't have that MM though I do have a collection... but 50' PS-1s are a little off my radar now that I've settled on 1952... the 40' PS-1 came about in 1948 but the 50' wasn't around until 1953 or 1954...
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

I read all the 40' PS1 articles in the RailModel Journal and I think, if I'm not wrong, that they had tables indicating the variations. May have been Ed Hawkins who did it. Mammoth job.

Can't remember whether the situation with the 40' PS1s was quite as bad, but I'll revisit. I'm a bit of a 40' boxcar freak.

I should say that my idea of paper sides is really only suited to boxcars, any car where the paper 'panels' run to the car sill would quickly fray with handling.

On decals, I had some which were good, but a number of the more 'backyard operator' ones were awful, in N anyway.

I must have had a good run with CDS transfers; most I ordered were good and I couldn't work out why the technology didn't take off more widely. Someone bought CDS's line, but they don't respond to queries so I imagine they are no more.

BTW, RailModel Journal's June 1998 article on the X29 versions on DT&I, B&O, NKP, etc

http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/page ... 98-page-24
Last edited by scaro on Tue May 20, 2014 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Tue May 20, 2014 3:19 pm

I think I recall it not being nearly as lunatic with the 40' PS-1s as it is with the 50' cars. I haven't really looked at those very closely although I will need a couple - I'm more a nut for the X29/1923 ARA steel cars, the USRA cars and clones, War Emergency cars and clones. And I've looked a lot at the 1937 AAR cars, because of the existence of the GC model.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Tom Dempsey » Tue May 20, 2014 7:02 pm

Yes, Al both of those "gentlemen" have been repeatedly contacted about Intellectual Property rights. In some ways, E-Bay is one of the biggest fence operations on the planet. When Tom Hood owned CDS, he and his partner did a great job of doing excellent quality dry transfers, however, depending on how they're stored and/or handled, dry transfers can be easily damaged or caused to deteriorate. CDS is now owned by Dave Rhodan (Ozark Miniatures, Hartford Products, and several others) who's been on a buying spree for about three years. He has acquired quite a few older companies, perhaps you just need to be persistant if there is something in the CDS portfolio you're after. Most dry transfer manufacturers, and there aren't many left, will probably entertain a request for something. But you do have to keep in mind that they're probably going to want to print something that looks like it might sell, say 40-50 units over a two year period, otherwise the capital's tied up for too long.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Wed May 21, 2014 4:17 am

Thanks for the info on CDS, tom. I got my transfers when I was living in Tasmania, which has a temperate climate, and they fared well. I may have been luckier than some. They were also quite inexpensive. I was putting them on handpainted N boxcars , I didn't have an air brush; I like painting by hand with several thinned layers built up slowly. Generally I'd repaint and transfer what I liked onto whatever car I had.

I had some decals, I think Northeast Decals? - more hit and miss than the dry transfers. I didn't like them much on the flat sides of boxcars; the backing film was way too thick and obvious, thicker than the weld lines, I calculated. Didn't look good in N. Their loco sets were nice though.

The issue of a 40 unit run is the killer with these things as it is with decals.

We probably should have a thread where folk indicate what they would like a few sets of, would that help you do a few more sets of your transfers in TT ?

Maybe everyone will want one of everything and the information will be useless, but maybe there's someone out there who wants a 20 car L&N coal train, for example ... and a few others like me who would take 2 L&N sets, so that would be one to make.

Although ... on that, one of your TT decals is for a Cincinnati Northern boxcar (NYC subsidiary). If you know, do you mind commenting on how it was that this came into production? I assume there wasn't much hope of selling 40 of those to TT scale modellers? Or is there a dedicated Cincinnati Northern TTer somewhere?
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Wed May 21, 2014 1:51 pm

scaro wrote:I had some decals, I think Northeast Decals? - more hit and miss than the dry transfers. I didn't like them much on the flat sides of boxcars; the backing film was way too thick and obvious, thicker than the weld lines, I calculated. Didn't look good in N. Their loco sets were nice though.


And on the other hand, I know decals that are amazingly fine and very thin, almost imperceptible even before any overcoat is applied.

The issue of a 40 unit run is the killer with these things as it is with decals.


I think I may know some other sources that will do smaller batches. I'll look into it. After all I only needed to get 19 of my B&O hopper sets made.

Maybe everyone will want one of everything and the information will be useless, but maybe there's someone out there who wants a 20 car L&N coal train, for example ... and a few others like me who would take 2 L&N sets, so that would be one to make.


Funny you should pick L&N... per my grand master plan I'll need 5 L&N hoppers (though not all of the same type).

Although ... on that, one of your TT decals is for a Cincinnati Northern boxcar (NYC subsidiary). If you know, do you mind commenting on how it was that this came into production? I assume there wasn't much hope of selling 40 of those to TT scale modellers? Or is there a dedicated Cincinnati Northern TTer somewhere?


I was surprised about that, too! My main focus is on the Cincinnati/Dayton/Columbus area and it's too old even for me, CNOR was long gone by the '50s...
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Tom Dempsey » Wed May 21, 2014 2:09 pm

Those first four were the ones that Russ ran, I asked him at the time when I was doing the inventory inspection and acceptance and got essentially no comment on how he selected those. I suspect that either the person who talked him into printing TT wanted those four, which really doesn't make sense as they shouldn't have ever run together on a real railroad or that is what he had on the front burner for printing and he added them. I would have done the GN car, I would have done the NYC car as either NYC or possibly MichCentral, but the other subsidiaries were too small of groups. I probably wouldn't have done the ERDX car as it's a car that would not usually leave the northeast, the SP car I definitely would have done, except I might have done the 50 ft car as well (and yes, it's perkulating around in my mind, I have an unbuilt HP kit that want's that artwork). If you guys want certain artwork done, let me know, I fit things into regular runs for folks frequently.
As for thick film/thin film waterslide decals, there has been a lot of improvement over the last ten or fifteen years in the paper and printing processes, however, to really get the full benefits you have to be printing either by the silkscreen or letter press methods. One day when I have more money than I need, I'm going to get the pad printer up and running and attempt to make letter press thin film waterslide decals, but that's probably a long way off.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Shipsure » Wed May 21, 2014 3:44 pm

Quick note on paper sides. I've see some craft kits where detail was embossed from the back side to give the models some surface dimensions. Paper models come to mind. If you could emboss corrigations or panel lines, it would go a long way in making these things even more realistic.

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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Thu May 22, 2014 9:49 pm

Tom Dempsey wrote: CDS is now owned by Dave Rhodan (Ozark Miniatures, Hartford Products, and several others) who's been on a buying spree for about three years. He has acquired quite a few older companies, perhaps you just need to be persistant if there is something in the CDS portfolio you're after. Most dry transfer manufacturers, and there aren't many left, will probably entertain a request for something. But you do have to keep in mind that they're probably going to want to print something that looks like it might sell, say 40-50 units over a two year period, otherwise the capital's tied up for too long.


CDS had a couple of things in their range that I might be able to use twenty sets of. Maybe I should try to email him again and ask about a resize to TT. Do you have an up to date email for him, Tom?
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Tom Dempsey » Fri May 23, 2014 1:57 am

No, I haven't talked with Dave Rhodan in a couple of years. If you enter Ozark Miniatures into your search engine, it'll come up with his website. I'd imagine he has a e-mail contact hyperlink on the splash page.
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