Available North American Prototypes

Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Tue May 20, 2014 8:41 am

thanks gentlemen. well, sounds like there is one version that might be suitable.

PRR, B&O, NKP (did any make it to N&W?) and NYC is a respectable list. Louisiana & North Western bought ex-B&O cars too, i believe, though whether M26-B i am not sure ... the book's at home. possibly other RRs; FDDM&S and DMCI -I think both Salzberg lines- had some, not sure who they got them from.

for the others, i wonder. with all the rivet variations, this is one of those things where 'old school' kits consisting of printed paper sides (so you can roll your own rivets) and a selection of ends, roofs and doors might be a more useful method. RPCYC vol18 also details a range of double and single sheathed cars which used many of the same components.

cars made from castings and printed paper sides? sounds a bit 1940s, but it at least 'future proofs' against the issue of finding decals or transfers (which barely exist in our scale, a state of affairs spreading to all scales as small producers retire and are not replaced.)

i've seen paper used as a modelling medium in australia to good effect, but not in recent times in the US, maybe it deteriorates too much over time or some other issue.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Tue May 20, 2014 9:37 am

NYC is just a "maybe" if you make the sides with separate doors - DT&I though is the same as PRR and NKP/W&LE.

As to whether the NKP ones lasted into N&W, I don't know but probably... Pennsy ones lasted well into Penn Central and I think even Conrail.

I didn't know about the Fort Dodge line having any X29s... that must've been like in the 60s then?

I doubt paper would hold up well in the humid environments like southwestern BC, US Pacific northwest, Great Lakes areas...

I think the decal issue is less an issue than you think. I'm sure the white ink issue will be re-solved again in the near future. And there are plenty of decal makers around.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Tue May 20, 2014 11:28 am

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=78724

Not sure how this car got to the Alton & Southern. Years ago on STMFC, Hom mentioned Chicago Freight Car and USRE and the "rolling junk" leasing phenomenon of the 1960s which may have resulted in cars like this getting to a lot of small roads.

DMCI had some kind of X29-like car, I know because I saw a shot of a real one a few years ago, never managed to find it again.

Someone else must have seen it too, since here is a shot of a model:

http://greatdecals.com/Netterfield/ftddm&s_cars_009.JPG
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Richard-B » Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Bernd wrote:I've always liked the NYC Pacemaker cars. Have several in HO plus a Pacemaker caboose. I thought a string of these in TT scale would be great to have. <snip>
I just wish they guy hadn't printed the ladders and grab irons on too. Going to be kind of hard to hide that after adding ladders and grabs.

You mean like this?
NYC_Pacemaker_draft1.gif
Pacemaker - no ladders

Note that the cars without AAR data were intended for NYC use only. Later, when they were allowed to "wander" to foreign roads in exchange service, they were usually lettered with the standard dimensional data. (below)
NYC-175258 Pacemaker_caso.jpg
Pacemaker with dimensional data
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby areibel » Tue May 20, 2014 12:53 pm

Bernd wrote:
I just wish they guy hadn't printed the ladders and grab irons on too. Going to be kind of hard to hide that after adding ladders and grabs.

Bernd


I don't know if he actually did any original work on these or not- I think he just scans and then changes car numbers to make multiples. A lot of the sides he offers are copies of NMRA sides (the old NMRA Bulletins often had color art work of a car in multiple scales), some look like he just took from HO or other scales and reduced, or maybe even just copied the side of an HO car (check out his Bicentennial cars, the Jello car, etc.. all straight from HO scale Tyco cars).
There's another seller on Ebay that does the same thing, I'm surprised no one has mentioned copyright issues to either of them.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Tue May 20, 2014 1:11 pm

Bernd wrote:Speaking of paper sides and living in the north east. Live north of the Finger Lakes and somewhat south east of the Great Lakes, I have to say that we do get some humid weather. So this next project that is lined up to do sometimes when the weather turns colder again, (fall) I have 15 paper car sides. I've always liked the NYC Pacemaker cars. Have several in HO plus a Pacemaker caboose. I thought a string of these in TT scale would be great to have. I cam across an E-bayer that makes paper sides in TT scale and NYC to boot so I ordered his car sides. I figure for around $16 for 15 car sides with different numbers it would be fun to do. The seller is "estorebooks" (Bill Laidlaw from Arroyo Grande, CA)

NYCpacesides.jpg


I just wish they guy hadn't printed the ladders and grab irons on too. Going to be kind of hard to hide that after adding ladders and grabs.

Guick note about the PS-1 boxcars. I have recently been going through some of my RR magazines, in particular Mainline Modeler. I came across a lot of drawings of PS-1 box cars from many different roads. Very interesting subject.

Bernd



I think paper printed sides may fare OK when backed onto perspex made tacky with MEK and similar solvents. One issue i've already found when experimenting is that too much solvent causes the ink to run.

Not sure i'm keen on the sides sold on ebay as they are quite thick. I am thinking of thin paper ones, where one can roll rivet detail or emboss carefully with a pin from the back. for a car with a specific rivet pattern, a cute product might even be a printed side with correct rivet positions printed on the reverse, which would be a guide for indenting rivets. Once the embossing is done, the paper can be laminated to the perspex, and panel edges scribed carefully with a very sharp hobby knife.

Xen, I think the decal point is an issue because currently, aside from swapping with others (as we have done and i encourage others to do) there is no getting away from the expense of having a run done for each individual vehicle one wants to model, if one cannot find suitably sized lettering and heralds on something like a Microscale set. (Some of their HO and N sets are handy that way.)

However, given the choice of any other option, I'd take it. I'm not a huge decal fan, to be frank. When I modelled American N, I much preferred CDS dry transfers for appearance. I find decal film is somehow nearly always visible unless covered with about a scale foot of dullcote or the like. Printed sides would allay that problem.

PS1 boxcars would seem to be the inevitable thing to focus on. Wonder who'll do one first?
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Tue May 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Re: decals... well, with Alps printers a "run" can be as little as one set. I got some inkjet decal paper and I'll be experimenting with that for decals that don't need to be white, reefers for example. Likely won't be as nice as silkscreened decals but I'm sure they'll be serviceable.

For my part I'm not very big on dry transfers though will use them if necessary. That said a *good* CDS set was spectacularly clean and sharp... a not so good one was utterly awful.

PS-1s - 50' /and/ 40' - would be a good thing to focus on for someone, for sure. Usable for anyone modelling 1948 to the late 90s or early 2000s...
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Shipsure » Tue May 20, 2014 2:19 pm

If you have a copy of the June 99 issue of Mainline Modeler you see building any definitive PS1 50' Boxcar is fraught with peril. Doors range from 7' to doubles at 15, lower sills were all over the place...even the panel count is different between road orders. Need a emoticon for pulling my hair out. :) Even if you settled on the 8' as a proto, you would only be gaining a few proto roads before you started down the Fudge Bunny Trail.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Shipsure » Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 pm

I have both an Alps and a UV set printer and I gotta say you can do amazing things with the Alps. I can do cleaner Z Dim Data than we can do with pad printing. My only problem is the sheet return feature is not working on the Alps so I am somewhat restricted on what I can do. Still, plenty of protos with white only.

Joe

Marquette wrote:Re: decals... well, with Alps printers a "run" can be as little as one set. I got some inkjet decal paper and I'll be experimenting with that for decals that don't need to be white, reefers for example. Likely won't be as nice as silkscreened decals but I'm sure they'll be serviceable.

For my part I'm not very big on dry transfers though will use them if necessary. That said a *good* CDS set was spectacularly clean and sharp... a not so good one was utterly awful.

PS-1s - 50' /and/ 40' - would be a good thing to focus on for someone, for sure. Usable for anyone modelling 1948 to the late 90s or early 2000s...
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby ConducTTor » Tue May 20, 2014 2:40 pm

Shipsure wrote:Need a emoticon for pulling my hair out. :)


How about :wall:
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