Available North American Prototypes

Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Richard-B » Sat May 17, 2014 11:11 pm

areibel wrote:And don't worry about sounding like a scale purist- we all sound like that!

I prefer to think of myself as a "Scale Plausiblist"
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Arseny » Sun May 18, 2014 2:56 am

Marquette wrote:And yet another thing I've only just remembered... Rail TT in Ukraine makes some very nice automobiles and trucks, along with a single-sheathed boxcar that's a model of the CN's clone of the USRA single-sheathed design. I've got a few of these on hand in kit form, too. The ladders need removing and replacement because they're cast-on and the rung spacing is much too wide, but the quality of the castings themselves is very good. One of my kits I will do as a CN car, the other I think will serve as a very good basis for an SP B-50-14.


RailTT produces not only single-sheated boxcar, but also stock (cattle) car, steel caboose, flatcar, all-steel boxcar and reefer.
rail-tt-tt-scale-models.html

Also we are to mention Lok-n-Roll company (http://www.lok-n-roll.de)
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Sun May 18, 2014 7:41 am

PS1 boxcars, whether 40' or 50', stretch from the transition into the GP38-2 era.

X29s too, but looking at the Rail Prototype Cyclopedia, vol 18 created numerous headaches for me in trying to find any one version of the 1923 proposed ARA all-steel design that would be right for more than one railroad. I think there's an X29 variant which was right for DT&I, W&LE, hence NKP? Is that right?

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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Sun May 18, 2014 10:32 am

scaro wrote:PS1 boxcars, whether 40' or 50', stretch from the transition into the GP38-2 era.


I saw a CP Rail 50' PS-1 in a revenue train around 2006.

X29s too, but looking at the Rail Prototype Cyclopedia, vol 18 created numerous headaches for me in trying to find any one version of the 1923 proposed ARA all-steel design that would be right for more than one railroad. I think there's an X29 variant which was right for DT&I, W&LE, hence NKP? Is that right?


Also PRR & DT&I. In more general terms, PRR, DT&I, LNE, C&O, CGW, N&W, B&O, W&LE, NKP and I think a couple others all had X29 variants.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby scaro » Sun May 18, 2014 11:11 am

they did, but according to the RPCYC vol 18 tabulated information you'd be hard pressed to find one variation that covers more then two or three of these roads.

the easier ones can be corrected by sanding off rivets and seams and using archers transfers to do the correct rivet pattern. there were five.

you can see how atlas came up with the USRA DS-rebuild foobie. if that task arrived on your desk, it would seriously do your head in, if your remit was to create one injection mold that suited a dozen roads.

and the proposed 1923 ARA all-steel design wasn't even a railroad rebuild.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Sun May 18, 2014 12:08 pm

You're not wrong at all, but IMO when producing a kit you need to draw a line at what is "too much"... I'd say if apart from rivet pattern everything else matches, that's close enough for most modellers, and anyone for whom that's an issue, it's easy to fix.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Mon May 19, 2014 12:06 pm

scaro wrote:they did, but according to the RPCYC vol 18 tabulated information you'd be hard pressed to find one variation that covers more then two or three of these roads.


Per the list you cite, there are only two variants that form a natural class (to borrow terminology from my linguistics work) such that all distinctive features match up, namely:

Side rivet pattern 1, 31' 3" truck centres, 42' 3" over strikers, 5' 6" kingpin striker distance, Youngstown doors, ARA plate ends, ARA all-steel roof:
* B&O 271500-272499 Class M-26C (1000)
* B&M 70988-7099 (12; renum. from 71954-71974)

Side rivet pattern 2, 32' 3" truck centres, 42' 3" over strikers, 5' kingpin striker distance, ARA carbuilder doors, ARA plate ends, ARA all-steel roof:
* B&O 267000-267999 Class M-26B (1000)
* DT&I 18000-18149 (150)
* DT&I 20000-20199 (75)
* NKP/W&LE 25000-25999 (1000)
* PRR various

Everything else differs from everything else in one distinctive feature or another (or several).

So the simple solution, for one wanting to make a kit, is to opt for the latter group with the #2 rivet pattern on the sides. Make the kit with separate doors, then one just needs to fabricate a Youngstown door, and one can model the NYC's group of 100 such cars.

Everything else would need different doors and/or ends and/or roofs (which could all be fabricated with relative ease, except perhaps the Inverse Dreadnaught ends), and should have their rivet pattern redone.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Shipsure » Mon May 19, 2014 12:22 pm

Now you see the researchers problem with settling with any prototype...usually, they were anything but universal from railroad to railroad. You also have to consider door sizes...those could be all over the map too. Oye!

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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby areibel » Mon May 19, 2014 12:38 pm

LOL!
Well, raise the price of the kits, include a couple extra doors and let the modeler choose! The extra parts might be useful, either for bashing or as loads.. Somewhere I have a pic taken at the former EL car shops in Meadville PA while Conrail was gutting it, there were two or three gondolas full of car panels being shipped to CR's shop in Hollidaysburg PA.
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Re: Available North American Prototypes

Postby Marquette » Mon May 19, 2014 12:49 pm

Shipsure wrote:Now you see the researchers problem with settling with any prototype...usually, they were anything but universal from railroad to railroad. You also have to consider door sizes...those could be all over the map too. Oye!

Joe


Oy indeed!

In the first group, the B&O cars had 6' x 8' 1" doors, while the B&M cars had 6' x 8' doors.

With that second (bigger) group, the DT&I, NKP/W&LE and Pennsy cars had 6' x 7' 11" doors... the B&O cars had 6' x 8' 1" doors.

Two inches *there* is probably within my tolerances, BUT if the door is made as a separate part even that's not a huge worry. And in any event, with the X29/1923 ARA proposed-standard steel boxcar, the Pennsy is the "big one" and so even omitting the B&O you have a model that anyone modelling from the 1920s to 1960s can use since the PRR cars got absolutely everywhere.

But your point is well taken!
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