Atlas n tt tread.

Re: Atlas n tt tread.

Postby ctxmf74 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:49 pm

"I have to say that considering where tt was four years ago we have come a long way. we now have possibilities that we didn't have then. the best you could do was by something on ebay that was just about to break or needed parts you couldn't find anywhere."

Yeah definitely much better than it was a few years ago. The Saz model locos are the big deal because they bring state of the art locos to anyone who wants one. Now I'm most concerned with the track problem because anyone looking at a loco is going to be looking for track to run it on. I'd love to see Saz proceed with the PFE reefer project that gold Coast had talked about so we could have another RTR first class freight car as bait for more TT modelers to join the ranks.Another big help would be a source of in stock freight car trucks so folks could build some of those old kits floating around. I'm hoping Saz will be stocking the Gold Coast trucks when production gets rolling? ....DaveB
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Re: Atlas n tt tread.

Postby railtwister » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:38 am

areibel wrote:Guys, this is getting old!
You're both right on some things, and you're both wrong on others. For example Bachmann and On30. New scale? Well, sort of. But with ready made track and mechanisms from their HO line it probably wasn't a big investment like tooling everything up from scratch, and they probably got a return on investment with their first Christmas sets to run around the tree. And that's what the first offerings were, cutesy trains for kids to run . But someone that wanted to run narrow gauge trains on the cheap discovered it was perfect to kinda sorta represent real narrow gauge. Compare the equipment cost to On3 and you can see where it would be attractive, and the trains are well done. Big stuff that's done well, it sells. And with lots of O scale parts and accessories for the more serious modeller, slam dunk. But to start completely from scratch on a different scale? Nope, won't happen. Even some that did well trying it at first have given up (think Lionel or even Polk's in G scale).

But any manufacturer that would turn something out to please one or even a small group of modelers isn't going to survive either. It's much better in TT now than it was with the more modern production methods but I've been told "No" on many occasions. From companies offering N or HO scale etched details to Shapeways to laser kits, some just don't want to bother. And some of these projects could be done in very small runs that would guarantee a sell out and money in their pocket. But I'm not bemoaning the death of TT scale because of it. I'll keep asking, and hoping for more guys like ConducTTor and CSD to come along. If you'd have told me five years ago we'd have the Shapeways cars and an RTR locomotive I'd have laughed at you. But it happened, and I think there are more people out there that can do the same thing. We have to attract them, either by getting out there and showing it off, getting publicity however we can- the recent posts on the MRH forum and the MRN article are just what we need. We have to keep going. Ourselves. Show the guys whose idea of model railroading that there's more than taking stuff out of the box and setting it on the rails. Get them here, get them interested and let it work on it's own!
But for anyone interested to come here and see this sort of petty bickering, that's not something we need!



As someone who is also active in On30, I'd like to offer some clarification on the motive for Bachmann deciding on On30 rather than something else. Yes, the availability of the EZ track line was a big factor, but so was the fact that one of the Ceramic Village companies wanted Bachmann to produce a train set that could be marketed with their expanding line of buildings. The story I heard was that the first presentation that Bachmann made was for Sn3, but that idea was rejected because the sample models Bachmann had made up were thought to look too much like HO in size. Going to 1/48 scale (On30) resulted in trains that clearly were not HO, even though the reality is that the Sn42 models were closer to matching the approximate scale of the Ceramic Village buildings. As far as I know, Bachmann has never used any available HO mechanisms in their On30 products, they have all been designed from the ground up. There was an exception ( sort of) regarding the camp cars, which had their roots in the existing PlasticVille O gauge Hobo shacks, but in that case, no mechanisms were involved...

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Re: Atlas n tt tread.

Postby railtwister » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:50 am

ConducTTor wrote:Let's all be civil pls. I dont want this to turn into one of those other forums.


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Interesting that this is happening in a thread that started out discussing the Atlas Forum, and the bickering and snarky replies seen so often there, were a big factor in Atlas dropping that forum...

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Re: Atlas n tt tread.

Postby ctxmf74 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:39 am

"Bachmann has never used any available HO mechanisms in their On30 products, they have all been designed from the ground up."

They make some neat stuff but if they had thought it thru and used On3 gauge instead they could be making that stuff in prototype models like EBT, SPNG, SPC, NCNG, etc. instead of freelance models. Being able to run on HO track don't matter much to the serious narrow gauge modeler who buys more realistic On30 track and could just as well be buying On3 track. Freelance stuff would work just as well in On3 as it does in On30 and the On3 scale guys would be an additional market to tap. A little more planning at the beginning would have made a lot of difference now in the product range and usability as a scale model. O scale has a similar elephant in the room problem with it's 5 foot gauge that no company wants to correct because they don't want to rock the boat now that it is loaded. Somehow HO gauge avoided all the mis-steps and just cruises along without care, not sure how that happened, maybe it was the roots being modeling companies instead of toy train companies? Although TT was a modeling based scale and din't follow the HO path to success? Strange how all this stuff played out.. .DaveB
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Re: Atlas n tt tread.

Postby railtwister » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:40 am

ctxmf74 wrote: They make some neat stuff but if they had thought it thru and used On3 gauge instead they could be making that stuff in prototype models like EBT, SPNG, SPC, NCNG, etc. instead of freelance models. Being able to run on HO track don't matter much to the serious narrow gauge modeler who buys more realistic On30 track and could just as well be buying On3 track. Freelance stuff would work just as well in On3 as it does in On30 and the On3 scale guys would be an additional market to tap. A little more planning at the beginning would have made a lot of difference now in the product range and usability as a scale model. O scale has a similar elephant in the room problem with it's 5 foot gauge that no company wants to correct because they don't want to rock the boat now that it is loaded. Somehow HO gauge avoided all the mis-steps and just cruises along without care, not sure how that happened, maybe it was the roots being modeling companies instead of toy train companies? Although TT was a modeling based scale and din't follow the HO path to success? Strange how all this stuff played out.. .DaveB


Often as modelers, we tend to only see the things we are interested in rather than the overall picture, and we tend to forget that not everyone else shares our same interests. We need to look things at from the viewpoint of a manufacturer, rather than a modeler in a niche scale.

Tooling for track in any scale is a major expense, because in order to have a decent track line, you need so many different pieces in both straight and curves, in addition to right and left handed turnouts, plus flex track for those few that are building permanent layouts. This is one of the problems with TT scale right now. For Bachmann, when they were considering producing On30, all of the work was already done and paid for in their existing HO track product line. Remember, the target market for the On30 products was not "dyed in the wool" model railroaders, but ceramic village collectors and Christmas train set customers, most of whom probably would never advance beyond using snap track and having temporary layouts. There simply isn't a big enough market to justify the cost of starting production of all of those products, plus track, in On3. Remember that HO has been on the market for over 70 years and has benefited from a lot of product development during that time.

As for building freelanced locos and cars, all of the Bachmann On30 items are based on actual narrow gauge prototypes, some in two foot gauge, some in three foot, but a lot in 30" or 2-1/2 foot gauge. The camp cars were the closest thing to freelanced items, but most real-life logging equipment was just freelancing done in 1:1 scale, anyway. The only real freelancing from Bachmann has been in some of the road names used on a few of the decorated versions.

If you want to model strictly in finescale (in any size), you need to be prepared to accept a limited variety of products at much higher than mass produced prices.

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