AstroGoat760's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Wheel Configuration to make

Poll ended at Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:39 am

4-2-0 (i.e. Pioneer)
3
43%
4-2-4 (i.e. CP Huntington)
4
57%
x-2-x (Other, must post photo of example)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 7

Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby AstroGoat760 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:27 pm

Well, the voting ends early tomorrow. (03:39am) If the result is a tie, the decision will be up to Nicholle (CaTTwoman281).

As far as the locomotives, if the 4-2-4 wins, the model will be as close to the look of the C.P. Huntington as possible, taking into account the possible discrepancy between the wheels I have on hand, and the wheels on the prototype.

As far as the 4-2-0, there are many possibilities, although I do not relish the idea of trying to make a scale model of the Pioneer's (4-2-0 type) tender, as good pictures of it are hard to find, so a lot of it would have to be guess-work. The 4-2-0 would largely be a generic model, although the 4-2-0 "Lafayette" is a good candidate. (I have a strong connection to the name Lafayette as the training ship I went to in Charleston, SC the MTS-626, ex-USS Daniel Webster (SSBN-626), was a Lafayette Class Submarine).

Some time tomorrow I will place a post stating the winner of the vote, and work will commence on selection of the prototype, as well as drawings and plans.

Photos to be posted of progress made as time goes on.
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby PKP » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:33 pm

I hate throwing a bucket of cold water on you selection, however I think you will find that in this scale the thing will weigh about as much as a wet postage stamp. I would look for a plan that would allow you to use a commercial mechanism for a first try. That way you casn tear your hair out working on the superstructure. Good Luck. :grin:
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:41 pm

PKP wrote:I hate throwing a bucket of cold water on you selection, however I think you will find that in this scale the thing will weigh about as much as a wet postage stamp. I would look for a plan that would allow you to use a commercial mechanism for a first try. That way you casn tear your hair out working on the superstructure. Good Luck. :grin:



PKP, welcome to the site and a good point that we all missed! This is definitely something to think about if this loco will be pulling any wagons.
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby AstroGoat760 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:50 pm

PKP wrote:I hate throwing a bucket of cold water on you selection, however I think you will find that in this scale the thing will weigh about as much as a wet postage stamp. I would look for a plan that would allow you to use a commercial mechanism for a first try. That way you casn tear your hair out working on the superstructure. Good Luck. :grin:


I have no intention of using a commercial mechanism, that is part of the purpose of this project: to make a loco with a scratch-built mechanism. The only commercial parts will be the wheels, gearing, motor and headlight.

The reason for a small loco is to get some experience down before I move onto bigger engines, such as an articulated steamer. I want to start with an engine that will stand out from the crowd, and to show that I am serious about modeling the "whole spectrum" (From the early days of steam to modern times) in TT scale.

Trust me, there will be some weight to the mechanism, it will weigh more than the PVM 25T, which can haul 3-4 cars on level terrain.

There will be cars made for the loco, with the intention of getting the engine to haul 2 or three at a decent pace, much like the prototype. More than likely both freight and passenger cars will be made.

I have put together many kits in several scales, and the rebuilding of my HP steamer fleet is pretty much kit work as well. I do have a pair of British built TT scale chassis (a 0-6-2, and a 4-6-2 Tri-Ang), but I do not feel that building a shell for one of those would qualify as a scratch-built locomotive. Besides, it would be best to start out relatively small.

In any event we shall see if I am crazy for committing to this model project, or if this project will make me crazy.....

In the words of Admiral David Farragut at the Battle of Mobile Bay:
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby PKP » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:23 pm

Like i said good luck with the project. My waterloo was a Sandy River forney in HOn2, using Roundhouse HOn3 parts for wheels, and gears. That would work out to be roughly the size of what you are doing. Ran like a jack rabbit. As far as Farragut goes. remember the arc was built by amateurs and the Titanic was built by professionals. :grin:
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:28 pm

'Sailor, did you say you're using a BullAnt to power this? If so, the weight of the 'ant itself may be enough?
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby AstroGoat760 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:06 pm

ConducTTor wrote:'Sailor, did you say you're using a BullAnt to power this? If so, the weight of the 'ant itself may be enough?


I never said I was using a BullAnt for this locomotive.

The dimensions of the BullAnt is not conducive to building a "single" (single driving axle) locomotive. The drive system will be a standard DC motor of the type one can get from RadioShack, with a worm and worm gear driving the single axle.

The loco will be built to haul 3-4 cars of mid-1800's prototype, so those will have to be worked out later. It is even possible to use those cars to help with electrical pick-up if needed (it would simply construction of the engine by a large factor).

I know roughly how big the engine will become: it will be around the size of a HP products 0-6-0 in length. It might even be possible to fit the motor in the boiler, as T-Gauge motors are roughly 4mm wide.

I am quite confident that this loco (by itself without the matching cars) will be built for less than the price of the BullAnt that is used in the PVM 25T kit.

A list of all parts used and cost will be posted upon final assembly and testing later on this year.

I am quite confident that this locomotive will work. I know it will not be easy, I like a good challenge.
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:17 pm

Here is a thought: the wagons for this loco will obviously be very specific to it. Have you thought about placing the motor in one of them? You would have a MUCH better working area greatly opening up your options for a motor and you could incorporate a flywheel as well. On top of that, you would have much more space to add weight.
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby AstroGoat760 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:06 pm

ConducTTor wrote:Here is a thought: the wagons for this loco will obviously be very specific to it. Have you thought about placing the motor in one of them? You would have a MUCH better working area greatly opening up your options for a motor and you could incorporate a flywheel as well. On top of that, you would have much more space to add weight.


I have considered that, but with the desire to have a flexible consist for the engine, as well as the eventuality that more mid-1800's proto steamers are likely on the horizon, dedicating cars to one engine for this project is simply something that I do not want to pursue. For the cars that this project will entail, they could very feasibly be used with 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s as well as 0-6-0s and 2-8-0s, even of the type that HP Products made.

The plan is to make the engine operable self-sustaining by itself on it's own. I intend on using a capacitor to act as a flywheel, which for this size of engine would be more effective than a mechanical flywheel.

How this works is:
1.) As power is applied to the engine, the capacitor shunts power away from the engine at a reducing rate as the voltage differential between the capacitor and the track, the motor speeds up at a rate lagging the application of the voltage increase, the "flywheel effect".

2.) When the capacitor reaches full charge, the capacitor stops shunting power away from the engine and the motor reaches the full speed allowed by the voltage applied to the motor's power connections.

3.) When applied track voltage is reduced, the capacitor discharges to match the new voltage level, which keeps the voltage applied to the motor higher than track voltage until the capacitor discharges to the point where the capacitor voltage equals track voltage.

4.) If track voltage is interrupted (whether is be due to momentary drop in pickup, (i.e. turnout) or the securing of track power), the capacitor will discharge in the same manner as the reduction in voltage, only the capacitor voltage will ultimately become zero.

Sizing the capacitor has a big effect on the "flywheel" effect. A small capacitor will yield a short duration flywheel effect, and a large one will make for very slow acceleration and deceleration, and would make any "stuttering" from going over crossovers and turnouts seem almost nil. The advantage of using an "electronic flywheel" is that it places less strain on the motor itself, and has the ability, if done right, to "out-flywheel" a mechanical flywheel. The downside is that it makes the wiring a little more complex, and capacitors do wear out over time.

At the risk of sounding like an a stubborn jackass the specs that I have set forth for the engine are not going to be changed. I have been planning this project out for the last 7 years of my life, over 1/4 of my life thus far (I am presently 26). They are:

1.) The engine be "self-sustaining" as in able to operate by itself.
2.) The engine has lighting.
3.) Able to haul at least 3 "era" cars on moderately inclined terrain.

Trust me, the explanation of how the "electronic flywheel" works that I gave is as simple as I can make it....
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Re: Angry Sailor's First Scratchbuilt Steam Loco Project

Postby ConducTTor » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:21 pm

The explanation is actually very good (although a have a bit of a background with capacitors). I have however, NOT thought of using them as an alternative to a mech flywheel. I'm very interested in the outcome of you project.
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