ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby Arseny » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:01 pm

Hi, guys!

I still have 2 ALCO FA kits made by PVM and want to assemble and finish them.
But it seems to me that it is too tall. What is your opinion?

IMG_9317.jpg
IMG_9318.jpg
IMG_9319.jpg
IMG_9320.jpg


The orange "Rio Grande" locomotive is Lionel's EMD F3, and "Santa Fe" one is Rokal. The unpainted PVM's ALCO FA looks a bit bigger than Lionel and of the same size as Rokal. But as I know, Rokal's model is a bit oversized, something like 1:110 or even 1:100...
Maybe it is necessary to reduce this ALCO model a little?
Or maybe I am wrong?..

What is your opinion?

(Few links just for reminding what's it all about :
pvm-alco-fa-and-fb-kit-information-t1228.html
using-br218-as-for-alco-fa-building-t1523.html
pvm-alco-fa-and-fb-kit-build-t1330.html
elmer-s-alco-fa-tillig-s-br-218-chassis-t1968.html )
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby j p » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:15 pm

Just take the real dimensions and divide by 120.
Lionel TT models are not exactly in TT scale.

The height of Alco FA is supposed to be 37.7 mm, I measured 39.4 mm on the model.
Yes, it is slightly taller.
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby areibel » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:04 pm

I had never noticed it, but the body itself is about a foot too high. According to the drawings the body should be just over 10 feet high from the bottom of the side panel to the top of the round fan opening, the model is about 11 feet 4 inches. I measured an original Kemtron FA and it is the same (or worse, depending on who built the model). The extra is spread out between the two lower panels and the grille area.
The only easy fix might be to see if you can mount the shell lower over the chassis and take away part of it? You might have to sand the pilot down a little to keep clearance, or just run the FA's by themselves?
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby scaro » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:47 pm

I got a Kemtron casting when I was more interested in Australian outline because English Electric designed an Alco-inspired cab for their full carbody locos which was used on a couple of Australian locos, and it looks a lot like the Kemtron.

gr_scan_0148.jpg


The Kemtron's lack of resemblance to a real FA hence, didn't bother me. But I did a bit of work on the cab to make it more closely conform to the Aussie cab and It seemed to me the Kemtron was too high, has rather odd windshields and overall the cab and nose lack the flattish, squarish look of real FAs.

Seeing the FA beside its partners in crime, the Lionel and Rokal, is a bit dispiriting, if I'm honest.

I don't envy the work done to turn the Rokal into something that might attract Americans to TT, and it looks like there were some real improvements, but I cannot imagine it had a prayer of a chance of succeeding, either, if I'm honest. HO and N were in a whole other ballgame by the 1990s and the Tillig F-whatsit could only ever be about as good as a 1970s Bachmann.
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby D Martin » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:44 pm

I know I am very late coming into this discussion; however I recall reading somewhere that Lionel's TT size models were scaled from Lionel's own toy diesels, with an assumption that the Lionels were true O scale size. The mathematics attempted to convert from O scale (1/48) to (TT 1/120), but the Lionels were under-sized to begin with. Recall that the Lionel diesels being copied were toy trains, made for 027 operation, with bodies less than scale size. The Lionel TT 1/120 items were sold as collectables, I think in shops selling greeting cards and Christmas ornaments. [This may have been a follow-up to Lionel selling Christmas tree ornaments that were cast in N gauge (1/160) size].

Also, I am sure that I also read somewhere that Kemtron made the Alco FA and FB diesel bodies about a foot taller than scale to accomodate the Lindsay motor. (I assume that PVM used Kemtron bodies for their pattern)

I can make a few pics of various A or B units if interest is shown in these comments....

Dennis M. in W. Tennessee
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby Bernd » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:29 am

Dennis,

I have one of the Kemtron cab/nose brass castings. Would like to eventually build the rest of the body from brass one of theses days. I'm very much interested in a few pics. I also have many drawings from different magazine articles such as MR, RMC & Maine Line Modeler to reference to. Thanks in advance for any pictures you post.

Bernd
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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby D Martin » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:04 am

Hello, I am charging the batteries for my camera, then will take pics to compare diesels, and to illustrate Alco body.

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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby D Martin » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:00 pm

IMG_2801.JPG
IMG_2802.JPG
IMG_2803.JPG
I am posting several pics, if all goes well!
All did not go well-- several pics I tried to make do not show on the SD memory card from camera. I will try to work on this more tomorrow. Sorry, I had one pic with HP E unit, Lionel F unit, Kemtron Alco FA all together.
It is my bed time; I wish a good night to all.

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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby D Martin » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:42 pm

IMG_2799.JPG
One more pic found on SD memory chip.

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Re: ALCO FA from PVM - question about dimensions

Postby Arseny » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:42 pm

Maybe these photos can help.

Erie Diesels - EMD F8, two ALCO FAs and EMD F3.

Erie Diesels Hornell.jpg


ALCO PA4 (not FA, however) and Amtrak's EMD F:

D-H18.jpg
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