50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby Richard-B » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:16 pm

Triggered by the recent discussion of waffle-sided box cars...
http://www.ttnut.com/wafflesided-boxcar-kit-t1934-10.html
I thought I would jump-in with another possibility.

Some of you are aware of the 3D-printed N and Z-scale cars done by Mark Sasson at MarkIV Design out of New Zealand:
http://www.mark4design.com/html/z_rolling_stock.html

Well... Mark had actually printed some of his designs in TT-scale as well,
So I thought I would drag out the resin waffle-side master I acquired a while ago.

50ft_GundersonWaffleSide-MarkIVDesign_1.jpg
Side View 4-high Waffle-side

and
50ft_GundersonWaffleSide-MarkIVDesign_2.jpg
3/4 view 4-high Waffle-side

I am NOT a resin-caster... so there has not been a plan to make these available.
Any thoughts???
Last edited by Richard-B on Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 50ft Gunderson Waffleside

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:12 am

Richard-B wrote:I am NOT a resin-caster... so there has not been a plan to make these available.
Any thoughts???


Thought: find a caster and make them available.
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Re: 50ft Gunderson Waffleside

Postby scaro » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:43 pm

richard,

just out of curiosity, what prototype was this one? i thought initially it might be like some of the west point route ones, but not so.

ben
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Re: 50ft Gunderson Waffleside

Postby Richard-B » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:25 pm

scaro wrote:Just out of curiosity, what prototype was this one?

Well.. after a lot of looking, and several off-line inquiries, I think I have the answer:
The 4-high Waffleside master is a 73% clone of a 1:87 MDC model of -NOTHING- !!! <frown>

The circa-1980's HO version... MDC #1800 is shown at:
http://www.planomodelproducts.com/forsale2010/mdc-1800.jpg
This car has been mentioned on various boards as lacking any actual prototype.

As far as I can tell... there are NO:
50-foot, 4 waffle, Plug door, 14-panel, tapered sill, dreadnaught-end, box cars anywhere in the 1:1 universe.
(At least in THIS time-space continuum...)

Given this: I have no plans to have any castings produced. <sigh>
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Re: 50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby areibel » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:00 pm

That's a shame, it looks like a nice model to run as is or bash into something else! Too bad the rivet counters are influencing a scale that got it's start with HP Products equipment that didn't match any prototype!
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Re: 50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby Richard-B » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:03 pm

areibel wrote:That's a shame, it looks like a nice model to run as is or bash into something else! Too bad the rivet counters are influencing a scale that got it's start with HP Products equipment that didn't match any prototype!

I don't characterize myself at all as a "rivet counter"...
I -DO- aim for some "plausible accuracy"... This model falls short as a potential production item.
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Re: 50ft Gunderson Waffleside

Postby railtwister » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:57 pm

Richard-B wrote:
scaro wrote:Just out of curiosity, what prototype was this one?

Well.. after a lot of looking, and several off-line inquiries, I think I have the answer:
The 4-high Waffleside master is a 73% clone of a 1:87 MDC model of -NOTHING- !!! <frown>

The circa-1980's HO version... MDC #1800 is shown at:
http://www.planomodelproducts.com/forsale2010/mdc-1800.jpg
This car has been mentioned on various boards as lacking any actual prototype.

As far as I can tell... there are NO:
50-foot, 4 waffle, Plug door, 14-panel, tapered sill, dreadnaught-end, box cars anywhere in the 1:1 universe.
(At least in THIS time-space continuum...)

Given this: I have no plans to have any castings produced. <sigh>


I may be wrong, but it seems to me I recall those discussions about the MDC car, and the main complaint was the flat roof, which didn't match the prototype for the sides and ends. Seems like with 3D printing, that shouldn't be such a great obstacle, but I'll leave that discussion for guys with experience in such matters. I really have no interest in a car this modern, I made the exception for Rob's Railbox models, but I must set limits somewhere...

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Re: 50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby scaro » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:55 am

with such a high volume of output in US model railroading and so many real prototypes to inspire, in recent years i have become mildly incredulous at how many of the things produced there are 'models of nothing'.

the rebuilt DS atlas boxcar is another case in point. it has no actual prototype, and is incorrect for all versions of that vehicle. i started a thread on 'foobies', you're welcome to add this boxcar to that!

my guess is the disease spreads easily from one scale to another because for a mold maker, it's evidently easier to use a $15 HO model as a prototype than buying hard-to-come-by copies of the Railway Cyclopedia and associated books and pictures, which are going to set a person back probably by $100 at least.

coming from the australian hobby, fidelity to actual prototype there is a much stronger focus and there have been major fallings out over retail models that ended up being a poor representation of this or that bit of rolling stock.
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Re: 50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby Richard-B » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:03 pm

scaro wrote: for a mold maker, it's evidently easier to use a $15 HO model as a prototype than buying hard-to-come-by copies of the Railway Cyclopedia and associated books and pictures, which are going to set a person back probably by $100 at least.

I have a LOT of tolerance for painting/lettering a "close-enough" model for a favorite prototype. IMHO this is a personal choice regarding how one "models" railroads.

On the other hand... I have a real problem with manufacturers in any scale who put out a model product simply because it's cheap and convenient. We've seen models shortened "to fit the box"... and entire product lines built around sharing one existing underframe casting. The relatively recent Micro-Trains HOn3 cars seemed to suffer from this "shared chassis" approach.

If a modern production company is going to develop CAD model drawings for either 3D printing or cutting injection molds; Why not make it "right" for at least one obvious prototype car type. This certainly applies to hand-made casting masters as well.

Doesn't TT-scale have enough generic cars on-hand to survive for a LONG while?
Wouldn't it be more effective to focus our collective efforts on building:
1) the most widely used cars for both steam/transition and modern eras
2) signature cars - i.e. RR-specific
3) unique cars

In summary:
Having accurate models penalizes no one... Decorate them however you wish.
Foobies means that those who do care about accuracy are not going to buy the product.

YMMV...
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Re: 50ft (not Gunderson) 4-high Waffleside

Postby areibel » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:33 pm

I guess it's just a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
I look at your master, it's not badly done but it doesn't match a prototype. Then I look at a boxcar like this one-
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el69118agd.jpg and see some possibilities. Yep, it's not a waffle side. And it's a 16 panel, not a 14. To me, I'd use it. Shave off the waffles with a sharp Exacto blade or chisel, paint and decal it. And if anyone would care to criticize it, show me yours that's better? Most of the negative comments I've heard at RPM shows are from the armchair guys, they might have the knowledge but when it comes to build a model, well that just hasn't happened yet. And probably won't.
I'm probably not going to enter it in a RPM (Railroad Prototype Modellers) meet. I enjoy those models and I'm hoping someday to have TT models entered in some, but we aren't even close yet- We don't even have a 50 foot roof and any suitable ends to start unless it's all scratchbuilt. Some guys can do that, I can't. I've bought a couple boxcars from Shapeways I thought could be a starting point but they have as many if not more problems to start.
For the availability of 50' boxcars in TT at the moment (which would be zero), I think this would do some good. Find a caster, get a quote and do a poll to see who would be interested..
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