50 foot boxcar

Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Wed May 06, 2015 4:37 pm

areibel wrote:They look perfect Rob, good choice!
It looks close enough to these that I'm happy-
http://rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el163016gea.jpg

And the Erie and EL had several classes with double doors as well, either centered or offset so they will be helpful too. So I can use up my stock of Erie and EL decals! And maybe even cut a few up for 40 foot cars.


Al, do you know which roof did the Erie/EL cars have?

Jan
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby areibel » Wed May 06, 2015 5:22 pm

A couple more pics from Fallen Flags- Some roof info can come from there, they have some good builders photos. I didn't see the roofs when I watched them go by! I guess I'm not as fussy as you JP! I would guess if they came from the same builder they would have the same roof and ends as the ones you pictured in the flyer.
Erie
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie63200adb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie63200ddb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie68199b.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie66700bdb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie66700adb.jpg

DLW
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12098alb.jpg

EL
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el63126.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el66464alb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el67047ajh.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el67460aga.jpg (looks like it's missing a door, but the pic was taken in 1983 so it's had a hard life under Conrail!)
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el68847aga.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el68950akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/el69257bd.jpg (another one that's pretty beaten up, but this is 1997)

There are a lot more at George Ellwoods site, under EL Freight equipment, then boxcars-
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/box.html
There is a section for Erie cars, a few DLW and then the combined EL. Some were new after 1961 and would only have belonged to the EL, but you could still see the Erie or DLW cars right up until Conrail in 1976 and later. Each individual section has a listing under it with some details on each class, it includes everything from 40 foot cars up to 86 foot high cube cars) but there's a lot of info on there!
And there are dome drawings as well, but only for the original Erie cars- http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-book.html
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Wed May 06, 2015 6:03 pm

If the roof was different, the prototype can be used later for a different variant of the model, with a different roof. That's why I asked.
Some of the builder's photos help to answer that: Rob did not forget Erie. Thanks Al, the photos can be used for many other versions of the 50 ft boxcar.
We should not go intentionally for foobies. Instead, we better find a way how to make the Erie (and other) cars correctly. Either a new variant made by Rob later or replacement parts for Rob's cars made of resin or 3D printed.

Of course, if you decide to use your decals on the cars without any modifications, it is 100% OK as a stand-in.
Not OK for a manufacturer who wants to make his models correct.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Thu May 07, 2015 3:43 am

@Al
For sure I do not intend to make a foobie and I must say Erie is a puzzle for me. Or the dreadnought ends are incorrect, or the sill, or the roof. And if I look to the drawings, car number 63200 should have a diagonal panel roof, but on the pictures I cannot recognize the roof.

If I look to the Branchline documentation and what is offered on Ebay, car numbers 63057, 63087 and 63184 should have the correct roof, etc, but than the question is how accurate is Branchline with their models?

Any opinion?

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby areibel » Thu May 07, 2015 10:18 am

I think you're both driving yourselves crazy!
Look at these four drawings-
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-8-3a.gif
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-9-1.gif
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-9-1a.gif
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-9-2.gif

The pic I can't explain, unless it's just a bad photograph. It looks like there is some detail there but it's washed out? Maybe the galvanized roof photographed in the bright sun was too over exposed? The raised panels on the roofs aren't as high as you think, I've got a pic somewhere of a Stanray Diagonal roof and the raised sections are probably only 5 or 6 cm high if that. I'll post it if I can find it.
Now if you look at the drawings, the roofs all look slightly different. But if you look at the car data in the boxes along the bottom, the bottom of the second box is marked "Roof". If you look in each one they're all marked S.R.E.M. Co (Standard Railway Equipment Manufacturing Co., or "Stanray") Diagonal Panel. I doubt very much that the same company would change the design of a part in a short period, the same roof panels were used well into the 1970's and these cars were all built between 1955-56. They made the panels (one panel is between each upright seam, where the roofwalk mounts are shown) and supplied them to different railroads and car manufacturers, you can see some of these were built by General American, some by the Erie RR Dunmore shops, etc..
Whenever anyone says they are going by "official railroad blueprints" I have to wonder- which ones? These were all drawn by a railroad draftsman by hand. No computer, no CAD, just basically a guy with a pencil. If the Erie RR shops were building a car, and their mechanical dept. specified a Stanray diagonal panel roof it didn't matter how it was drawn, it was the same standard part that was ordered from Stanray. Same with the doors, ends, draft gear, brake equipment, etc.. They didn't build everything themselves. The quality of the official railroad blueprints had to rely on the talent of the guy drawing it up and how fussy he wanted to be.
I applaud you Rob for wanting to get everything right, but don't let it paralyze you! I do hope you can make several versions but we're still stuck in a hard place- we can't attract many modelers NA TT because there isn't much available, but there isn't much available because there isn't enough demand yet! I liked Tom Dempsey's idea of a flat kit. It could still be painted and have lettered sides, but a plain flat side with different doors and a roof you can change, it seems like it could be done more economically than individual car bodiess and have many more possibilities, especially for kit bashers. The HO guys have the luxury of swapping parts around between kits to make something exact, they don't have to cut up complete cars and try to mash them together (doesn't work well, I've tried!)
I won't be complaining about anything new in TT! I tried to build a Gandy Dancer boxcar kit where the roof panels came printed on a piece of card stock. The modeler had to cut out each individual section (each raised panel piece), glue them onto the wood roof then add the seams with thin stripwood. I couldn't even get them cut out uniformly, let alone trying to get them all properly aligned. I had hoped to do one nice one then cast resin copies but it's still down in a box buried in my workshop. Anything you do will make my life much easier! And if there's not an Erie or EL car in the mix, I'll just decal them myself and run them as is. I hope to have a small TT demo layout for the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society here in my hometown in Sept., and I'll bet even most of the members won't turn up their nose if the car has the wrong roof or side sills.
They'll be surprised to see anything EL in TT, and to tell the truth out of 1500 or so members I'd bet there aren't 50 that would know it's wrong anyways!
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Thu May 07, 2015 10:38 am

This one seems to be correct: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-9-1.gif
Or have I missed something?
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Thu May 07, 2015 10:46 am

OK Al.

Just being cautious. And I know that 50% or more from the TT-nut board readers are builders, but a lot of users do not have the time or the skill, so I want to offer RTR cars, as good as possible. I am convinced that making this hobby attractive to other scale users, I have to offer them RTR. And we have to have a large mix of rolling stock.

Erie will be added with 4 numbers.

Remember, that when I really start with producing not everything will be ready at one moment. During 3 years about 20 cars will come on the market.

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Thu May 07, 2015 11:09 am

@JP and Al

The added Erie car numbers are: 63016, 63057, 63087 and 63184

And a new overview.

Ciao,
Rob
Attachments
single door 50 ft AAR boxcar with straight sill.pdf
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Last edited by rdikken on Thu May 07, 2015 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby areibel » Thu May 07, 2015 11:10 am

Excellent! I'll start saving my pennies (and dollars!)
Al
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby MacG » Thu May 07, 2015 2:04 pm

I have rechecked my posted pictures. The CNW is only similar, but the CSS 1526 should by the same car type.
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