50 foot boxcar

Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:43 pm

One small reaction:

I have promised Lok-n-Roll not to start with the PS/1 because he is planning that car. And also Art&Detail is planning something with the PS/1.

Again discussing some examples will help to see if things can be arranged for more than one railroad company.

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby Richard-B » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:52 pm

j p wrote:I like the SP car. I just think that a car suitable for 8, 9 or more railroads would be better to start with.
Ok... let's start there:

The SP & C&O order was placed early in the PS-1 production cycle, and like the majority of 1954-1955 cars, had riveted sides, with a 15ft door opening, and YSD 7ft+8ft double doors. This riveted DD configuration is shared by cars from - C&EI, C&O, SP, SSW, and UP.
If you allow 'close-enough' prototype cars with 2x - 7ft-6in doors (separate doors?), you also have DT&I, SL-SF (Frisco), and WP. So... even the early riveted DD car comes pretty close to the right number of 'high-interest' railroad lines.

With welded cars (mostly post-1955) the choice is larger:
For single door cars the primary choice is about 8ft or 9ft doors: Separate doors seem a necessity (covering - PS, YSD, Superior), allowing:
8ft SD welded - ATSF, CIL (Monon), CNW, CRR, D&H, MILW, MKT, MP, SL-SF (Frisco), SSW, TS, WM.
9ft SD welded - A&WP, BM, C&O, CG, CRR, G&F, GM&O, KCS, L&N, M&STL, N&W, RF&P, RI, SL-SF (Frisco), WofA
(...cars with 8+8 panel spacing instead of the more common 7+7 adds D&RGW and Southern)

Like the earlier cars, the most common welded double door cars was the 15ft opening, with 7ft+8ft doors.
This welded DD configuration includes C&EI, C&O, D&RGW, DSS&A, ERIE, L&N, MKT, N&W, NH, RI, Southern, SSW, WP
Once again... allowing for cars with the 7ft-6 equal doors adds DT&I, SL-SF (Frisco), and several lines with both types.

This seems to point towards a TT-scale model with common (shared) PS ends, roof, and floor, and production of several side configurations (and separate doors) as the market dictates. YES... there are details and variations not covered -exactly-... but this approach covers the basics.

Historical Note: In the pre-internodal era, it was the overall shortage of these 50ft cars, and the lack of cars with higher weight limits (70- and 100-tons), coupled with a US Interstate Commerce Commission regulatory change - creating IPD (Incentive per-Diem) revenue, that led to the NEXT boom in box cars... the colorful 50ft exterior-post all-welded cars built in the late 1970s. But that is another story....
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby areibel » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 pm

Rob,
I think you need to refine your search a little. Going by an "AAR 50 foot boxcar" is too vague, it includes cars the railroads themselves built and cars produced by manufacturers. It's basically a standard that anything that would be interchanged would need to meet. And even if a railroad built a car with a Stanray panel roof and ends & doors supplied by a car builder they could be different, not only from other railroads but from early to late versions as well! It's no wonder this is driving you a little crazy.
If I were you (and you don't want to do a Pullman version), I would look at some of the other builders- American Car & Foundry, Greenville Steel Car Co. and several others. They would offer a "standard" car that would fit the needs of most jobs, or they could modify it with different doors, side sills, etc as requested by the railroad. If you google "American Car & Foundry boxcar" and get this-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/modelrail ... 244514626/
or Greenville Steel boxcar and other builders you can come up with some other examples.
And a resource you may find helpful if you do Yahoo- there's a Yahoo group called BBFCL, Baby Boomers Freight Car List. It covers cars in the postwar era up to probably the mid 70's. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bbf ... s/messages
I will admit I'm not a big fan of the Neo Yahoo system, but there are some very good guys on there that can tell what railroads would have similar cars.
You should be able to find a couple possibilities that were common to several roads. And the differences won't be big for other cars, so the modeler can either run them as is (mine will get Erie Lackawanna decals, whatever you make, correct or not!) or you can adopt the Prototype Modeler mindset of taking something close and making it correct! If the ends and rof are OK as is, then the modeler can change the doors, side sills, etc and make themselves happy!
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby Tom Dempsey » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:41 pm

JP, I'll be sure to inform the RRRB to cut off the checks to all those non existant retired mechanical department staff members. You guys can continue to rewrite the history of North American car building all you want, but I'd be surprised if the average model railroader in the year 2015, is going to go along with it. Please listen to some of these folks responses above, we're all trying to help you succeed in this endeavor. Perhaps a flat pack instead of a RTR car will get you closer to something more widely saleable. THIS IS A BUILDER'S SCALE!! The small passenger car model suppliers may have the best paradigm to follow. Build a core kit, then build sides and ends, etc. to assemble and model the car you're after. It would work in North America, because it already works, even as we speak.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:27 pm

Tom Dempsey wrote:JP, I'll be sure to inform the RRRB to cut off the checks to all those non existant retired mechanical department staff members. You guys can continue to rewrite the history of North American car building all you want, but I'd be surprised if the average model railroader in the year 2015, is going to go along with it. Please listen to some of these folks responses above, we're all trying to help you succeed in this endeavor. Perhaps a flat pack instead of a RTR car will get you closer to something more widely saleable. THIS IS A BUILDER'S SCALE!! The small passenger car model suppliers may have the best paradigm to follow. Build a core kit, then build sides and ends, etc. to assemble and model the car you're after. It would work in North America, because it already works, even as we speak.


Changing the meaning to the opposite. How nice.
Who said that there were no mechanical departments? I can see on the pictures that there were many standard components (doors, ends, roof, brake, trucks) which were obviously not designed individually by mechanical departments of each minor RR. Otherwise there would be hundreds of different solutions instead of those standard ones.

Anyway, "Build a core kit, then build sides and ends, etc. to assemble and model the car you're after" is what I do when time allows. The parts for that are more than 30-40 years old, maybe more, and possibly not easy to get anymore.
The core kit is made of wood, sides of cardboard, ends resin or metal, roof wood or resin... Does this bring more people to the scale?
With the kits available recently, you can also assemble and model the car you're after - if that car is a 40' Fowler or 1937 AAR 40' boxcar (only some of them).
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby Marquette » Fri May 01, 2015 8:31 pm

Tom Dempsey wrote:THIS IS A BUILDER'S SCALE!!


I think that's what they're trying to get at... getting away from that might be (one of) the key(s) to attracting new people to TT.
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50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Sat May 02, 2015 6:12 am

Hi Marquette,

Do you have perhaps pictures of a Pennsy car, I was looking for the following:
- diagonal panelroof
- apex roofwalk
- 1 + 3/4 improved dreadnought
- riveted sides, straight tab, 8ft youngstown single door
- friction bearing trucks

Is this the x47?

I need about 3 a 4 car numbers, one picture is enough.

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Sat May 02, 2015 2:32 pm

Pictures of X47 72732 can be found at
http://cdm16038.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p15017coll8/searchterm/x47/order/nosort

Numbers 72680 - 72999
Image


Could it be X50 instead? The difference seems to be in the car width.

Image
Image
Image

Pictures of 83049, 82937, and 82626 side view, 3/4 view, and end view are at
http://cdm16038.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p15017coll8/searchterm/x50/order/nosort
Picture of 83000 see PRR Color Guide Vol 1. (Rob has got that book)

Numbers:
47300 - 47464
82600 - 83099
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Sun May 03, 2015 9:03 am

Thanks Jan,

I was forgotten to look in those scans. But I will go for the X45, I think.

Still not ready with checking all the details. Hope to be ready next Wednesday with the first small batch single door 50 ft boxcars with a straight tab.

After that batch 2 with double door 50 ft boxcars will follow with fishbelly tabs.

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Sun May 03, 2015 9:47 am

rdikken wrote:Thanks Jan,

I was forgotten to look in those scans. But I will go for the X45, I think.

Still not ready with checking all the details. Hope to be ready next Wednesday with the first small batch single door 50 ft boxcars with a straight tab.


May I buy a sample? :lol:

After that batch 2 with double door 50 ft boxcars will follow with fishbelly tabs.

Ciao,
Rob


X45:
It does not have a straight side sill though.
Numbers: 73000-73499
Three pictures are in Pennsy color guide volume 2.: 73173, 73217, 73110
Some more pictures are at http://cdm16038.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p15017coll8/searchterm/x45/order/nosort
73140, 73312

Image
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