50 foot boxcar

Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby ConducTTor » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:56 pm

By that logic, all door mountings should be standardized so you can change out the doors of your box cars. Let's also standardize window mounting on all passenger cars. And on and on. Anyway, I'm done.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:25 am

If one manufacturer wants to make all kinds of trucks then he can define own standard. It would cause some problems for older cars or scratch building, but it can be done. Is that the case in NA-TT ?
Or do you really want to have each manufacturer having own standards? It is very likely that some cars would come with wrong trucks because the manufacturer of the car would just use own trucks and not the trucks made by another company. That would not be a problem for me if I can easily replace them. It would be a problem if the replacement requires milling of the underframe of the car!
Furthermore, look at the economy. Isn't is better for the manufacturer to sell additional trucks for other cars? I thought that the more you sell, the better. Or have I missed something?
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby Arseny » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:47 am

Peresvet sells a lot of Russian/Soviet cars.
I do not think that they will change anything in their manufacturing process to sell several dozens "standart" American trucks.
(If they do so, they are to change something in their cars also, aren't they?)
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:56 am

Arseny wrote:Peresvet sells a lot of Russian/Soviet cars.
I do not think that they will change anything in their manufacturing process to sell several dozens "standart" American trucks.
(If they do so, they are to change something in their cars also, aren't they?)


Yes, exactly.
I don't think that Lok-n-roll would change their GoldCoast trucks either.
As long as the truck mounting height (or bolster height) is the same, the trucks can be changed. GoldCoast, Peresvet, Art&Detail and all old manufacturers of cast trucks made the height according to the prototype. NMRA standard is also based on the prototype. Therefore their trucks can be swapped without any problems.
My recommendation to Rob would be to make the trucks the same way. The new design would not be a problem if the height was correct. The difference is 1.7 mm or something like that. Next time remember that the truck height has to be in the specs. Don't expect from the manufacturer that he knows it if he is not familiar with NA cars.

Edit: the difference is 1.47 mm, almost 7 scale inches
Last edited by Anonymous on Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby Marquette » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:15 pm

50' postwar AAR would be brilliant.

Trucks - as long as the ASF trucks from Gold Coast/Lok-n-Roll remain available, my suggestion would be Barber S-2 with friction bearings.

Road names - SP, Pennsy, Southern and something like CB&Q or Illinois Central would be a good array. And I'd suggest using earlier paint schemes, as a lot of cars lasted a long time without repainting - you could see a 1950 scheme in 1970, but not the other way around. ;)
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby rdikken » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:03 pm

@Marquette
Glad you are there. Will come back with more details next Tuesday/Wednesday.

Ciao,
Rob
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:22 pm

I think we have bigger problems to worry about than standardization. First there need to be enough models to grow the scale. Otherwise there is nothing to standardize.

Whatever makes it easier for manufacturers to make American models, that's what they should do. If one day we're lucky enough to have a big selection and a big market, I'll be the first to fight for standards.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:57 pm

ConducTTor wrote:I think we have bigger problems to worry about than standardization. First there need to be enough models to grow the scale. Otherwise there is nothing to standardize.

Whatever makes it easier for manufacturers to make American models, that's what they should do. If one day we're lucky enough to have a big selection and a big market, I'll be the first to fight for standards.


Not having the possibility for using other manufacturers' parts does not make it easier to add variety (enough models). I think that this is the best way to waste money. Do you want Zeuke-TT/MTB to make their own ASF ride control trucks because the ones from GoldCoast would not fit? The money wasted on that mold would help more to make enough models if it was used for a different car!
Do you think that we should not bring this to attention of the manufacturer and wait for him to invest in expensive injection molding tools and after that tell him to follow the standard? Do you think that he would be willing to invest in new molds? For trucks and also for all the cars he makes during the time we wait for enough models? :doh:
I think we should tell him now before more damage is made. Some of the manufacturers maybe don't know what is the best and make mistakes because they do not know that there is a standard, that there are other manufacturers' products, and (unfortunately) sometimes they don't know how the prototype looks like. Wait with duplicating the work and investment until we have a big selection and big market. Until then, cooperation is better.
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby ConducTTor » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:05 pm

@jp

Logic and the realities of life/the world are not the same thing. Usually, logic does not apply to reality. I prefer to deal with reality (although it drives me crazy precisely because it is not logical).
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Re: 50 foot boxcar

Postby j p » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:23 am

Nothing is wrong with the competition. The only minor detail is that each competitor needs a certain minimum volume of the production to be able to pay for the tools. As it is now, there is hardly market for one manufacturer. We need to increase the market size first to create the room for competition. Feel free to compete on models not produced by anyone else. That would help in increasing the market size. Stay away from duplicating others' models until there is a market for it. Otherwise you ruin the business for yourself and the competitor. The minimum production volume can be reduced by increasing the sales price, of course. Incompatible models reduce the market potential.
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