TT Scale. The Ideal Scale.

Those are good points, I guess. Though if people want to model steam they should model China. Seriously, though, I understand the appeal. But if you want to model a nice mix, why does it have to be 1980s? Why can't it be, say, 1960s DB? (Actually, I think 1960s West Germany has a very interesting atmosphere - the photos from cities to me have a similar air as photos from France in say the 1930s, alive and happy and with a certain innocence). If someone likes V/VI that's not a problem for me, there's room for everyone in the scale, I think (even though I find the "Buntebahn" to be /too/ "colourful"!).

If era IV DB is a "niche", what do you call North American TT, or RENFE, or New Zealand, or TTj? :)

I think down the road we may well see more Bundesbahn stuff. If we compare TT as it is now with what was available when I started to seriously get into the scale in 1994-95 - just in terms of German equipment - the difference is incredible. Back then we had, what? A 194, a 221, a couple of steamers, and the 218 was just brand new, a small number of freight cars and some DRG era passenger cars - much of the availability being era III, and hardly enough selection to really be able to have a proper fleet of equipment for a layout. Now? There's plenty of choice - diesels, electrics, steamers, switchers, passenger and freight cars.

So the positive developments over the past several years in TT aren't limited to US prototypes, but extend to everywhere - West Germany, all the new Czech stuff, Polish, Russian...

I guess you're right, but most people haven't seen chinese railways live. And obviously this forum here (ttnut) is much more tolerant than many people on the TT-Board are. They only saw Reichsbahn era III and IV, and everything else is not worth being called "railway". Especially the eras V/VI, where railway means shrinkage railways - which is just wrong. DBAG and private operators today transport a lot more passengers than Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn together ever did, and they nearly reached the freight volume of this time - together with a lot more competition against more and more trucks.
But luckily TT-Board isn't the entire TT market. You are right that there are other interesting times for railways, like the 1960s.

I wouldn't call anything a niche. Or, even Reichsbahn is just one niche - maybe slightly bigger, but also a niche. Many railroads have interesting facets. Also New Zealand or the US or southern america or africa.

You're right. We had a large progress in available models. But on the other hand there was nearly no progress in accessories, for example cars. Herpa does era V/VI trucks, but you can't buy private cars from this era. All they do in private cars is Reichsbahn. I don't want to see GDR cars on a modern layout, and you don't want to see GDR cars on a Bundesbahn layout. That's really annoying, though the "car situation" is even worse for Bundesbahn times.

Ok, let's discuss the cars (I love cars; maybe you've noticed it )
You are right, there is some lack of Western cars in TT, but though you can get some.

First of all, do not totally refuse Eastern cars. You can use Lada, Skoda, Wartburg, Moskvich - they were exported to the Western Germany, so you can use some.
Then you can use some mini-vans, such as Matador and Volkswagen Transporter T2 or T4.
And also VW Beetle is available.

Then; why do you talk about Herpa only? There are some other manufacturers of TT-scale cars.
Gabor announced some western cars such as Volkswagen Golf, Volkswagen Beetle, Volkswagen Passat and Mini Cooper.
(I do not know, if they are available and easy-to-order in fact, but they announced them)
Also they promised some models of 1970s in future - Opel P1, Peugeot 404, Renault R16.

Also, some modern cars are available in 1:110 approx - Mercedes, BMW, Opel.
Unfortunately, I do not know the manufacturer.



Finally, V&V produce models "in order", so anybody can order TT-scale car that he like...

Dibbedabb wrote:I guess you're right, but most people haven't seen chinese railways live. And obviously this forum here (ttnut) is much more tolerant than many people on the TT-Board are. They only saw Reichsbahn era III and IV, and everything else is not worth being called "railway". Especially the eras V/VI, where railway means shrinkage railways - which is just wrong. DBAG and private operators today transport a lot more passengers than Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn together ever did, and they nearly reached the freight volume of this time - together with a lot more competition against more and more trucks.
But luckily TT-Board isn't the entire TT market. You are right that there are other interesting times for railways, like the 1960s.

I don't think I'll ever forget the yelling-at I got from a number of people on TT-Board when I suggested I might look for some of the BTTB Shinkansen sets to kitbash into an accurate model...

Dibbedabb wrote:You're right. We had a large progress in available models. But on the other hand there was nearly no progress in accessories, for example cars. Herpa does era V/VI trucks, but you can't buy private cars from this era. All they do in private cars is Reichsbahn. I don't want to see GDR cars on a modern layout, and you don't want to see GDR cars on a Bundesbahn layout. That's really annoying, though the "car situation" is even worse for Bundesbahn times.

Yes, I don't quite understand Herpa's thinking on this matter with the selection of trucks vs cars. If era III eastern cars, then where are the Csepel, ZiL, IFA trucks? If era V/VI trucks, where's a VW Passat or Audi A6 or an E-class Mercedes?

As Arseny said, those era III eastern cars can be used in a Western setting... the thing is, though, that for every Wartburg, Skoda or Moskvich there were 50 other western cars.

Gabor shouldn't be discounted either, I like the selection they've got and are announcing, I just wish they were easier to get? That reminds me, I need to email them...

I forgot one thing I wanted to say.
Who said "Lada"? No Ladas, it's FIAT 124 !
Lada had almost the same exterior as FIAT-124; in 1:120 scale nobody will see the difference!
(Lada had entirely different OHC engine, hydraulic clutch, drum brakes at the rear, modified suspensions - but you will not see all these modifications on the TT-scale model!)

So you can use Lada model on your layout and say that it is FIAT!

Arseny wrote:You can use Lada, Skoda, Wartburg, Moskvich - they were exported to the Western Germany, so you can use some.

Ok, that's as right as Golf I and Mazda 323 were imported into the GDR. But that doesn't make them very common. And I would prefer the more common cars.
I would prefer Herpa for different reasons: First, they can offer models at an attractive price. Other manufacturers take (much) higher prices, because of smaller editions. Second, Herpa offers a good quality. Others (not all) often have a quality that's at least questionable. Thirs, Herpa is easily available. Other smaller manufacturers are hard to get, and there's only few information about them. Websites tell 2009 the new year, and so on...

Dibbedabb, agreed with you. Of course, if you model West Germany, you need some more cars.
I only wanted to say that SOME cars are available; you can't say that there is absolutely absense of suitable cars.

As for quality - it seems to me that Gabor's cars are good enough.

So, while we are waiting for BMW 750 from Herpa we can use Gabor's Volkswagens.

Arseny wrote:So, while we are waiting for BMW 750 from Herpa we can use Gabor's Volkswagens.

But only, if you get one

Herpa announced TT-scale GAZ-69 (Russian off-road car produced in 1953—1972) and Skoda 1100.

http://www.mo87.de/downloads/herpa-2012-05-06.pdf

Dibbedabb, alas, Eastern cars again! :)
Marquette, it is an excellent car for North Korean layout! ;)

GAZ-69 was exported widely in 56 countries, mostly in Asia, Africa and Latin America.
But in Western Europe too, especially in Italy (by Martorelli company)

I do not know if it was exported in N.America, but there is at least one GAZ-69 in Canada today! :)
One Canadian bought old GAZ-69 in Russia in 2007 and transferred it to Ontario.

Skoda 1100 was exported widely too, as I know.

Arseny wrote:Dibbedabb, alas, Eastern cars again! :)

Yes. What a shame